if being honest is negative, is it safe to assume everyone is lying?

[Screen Name]

So here's my new thing... Where do we draw the line on honesty when talking with career coaches, higher education career placement personnel, HR, hiring managers???

I am starting to feel like the only people I can be honest with is my friends, I mean truly honest with no bending of the truth. I ask this because I am wondering how career counselors really operate. It seems to me, from my past dealings with recruiters, which seem loosely similar to career coaches/counselors, that they only want to move forward with positive spinning scenarios. In all honesty, the reason why most leave jobs has to do with wanting more money, having a terrible boss, or some other negative aspect of a current situation, secondary of course is the desire to conquer new ground. If we all had progressive raises, fair and steady promotion, with people we enjoyed then there would be little need for changing jobs.

My point is, as it ties into my situation, my primary real reasons for thinking about moving on mainly circulate around the fact my employer froze salaries in a climate where they expect people to sacrifice massive amounts of unpaid extra hours. I don't feel "lucky to have a job" I feel like I deserve a fair deal where I am rewarded proportionately with my contributions in mind, year over year, in my opinion that is not asking too much. Here I find myself needing to keep these reasons secret from career coaches and such because the reasons sound negative and I don't want to scare them off. There is truth behind my wanting to be in a different sector of the business because it's more marketable, I want to relocate to an area of the country with more work in my field, I want to fully commit to my field but I need a deal that makes sense to do that. I firmly believe that "go with your gut" is something more of us should do with less hesitation, just looking back at my own career had I trusted my instincts more I'd be better off now. So everything in my gut is telling me to start looking elsewhere and that no matter how good I perform it will not be rewarded at my current employer will not reward me accordingly. Seems like career coaches and recruiters cringe when money or lack of growth is mentioned, am I correct in my perception that I should need to bend the truth or only tell the lighter side of the story to these folks? How about higher education career placement people?

At least I don't need to sugar coat here, for what it's worth... Anyone else get the feeling that although the reasons are not overly-negative that placement people just don't want to push candidates forward if any of the reasons for looking have to do with "lack of" opportunity, money, or anything else. I'm not talking about slamming my current job, I enjoy the work, just want a fair deal where I can earn more each year I stay, not asking too much but for some reason feeling like I should not mention it. Then the other thing, so you lie and say the job is great and the projects are exciting, money is good, and then well, why the heck are you looking elsewhere? At some point a negative aspect must see light, why all of the sudden are people saying crazy stuff like "give it three years"? Is it the economy? 3 years seems crazy, where my mindset lies is that after a year you don't get a raise you should be looking elsewhere, am I just expecting too much?

[Bocheezu]

I love the working world! It's fantastic! There was nothing wrong with my last job! Nothing at all! It was fantastic as well! Everything is fantastic! I just feel I need to broaden my horizons! I have much to learn here and I relish in the oppurtunity!

Never turn off the plastic smile, either.

[winneythepooh7]

I don't think it's necessarily a negative if you want to move on to make more money. I loved my first couple of jobs out of college, however, they only paid in the low 20's for the NYC-Long Island area. It really is hard to live on that salary as a single person, let alone someone with a family, mortgage and school loans to pay back in this part of the country. Most people understood that when I was looking for new employment, and didn't hold it against me.

The key is finding a good way to put a positive spin on wanting to make more money, as well as having research of the going payscales for your particular position, in your part of the country to back you up in asking for what you are looking to make.

A good way to do it may be to go into an interview with a list of things you are willing to bring to the company (i.e. offering to work a certain amount of hours, travel to certain locations, etc.) and then state the pay range you are looking for.

One of my friend's at work is kinda stuck in a similar situation now, because they hired her a couple years ago at a very low salary and told her "verbally" they would offer her more $$$$ once she got more experience, as well as clients in the position (she was more entry-level at the time with a tiny caseload). Now, like you, she is running her ass of at work and when she asks to meet to discuss a raise, it seems like they are dodging her. At the same time, it's difficult for her to leave, because the other perks are good (i.e. working from home, being 5 minutes from the office, flexible schedule).

I don't have a whole lot of advice except to keep sending your resume out, networking like crazy, and speaking to people about ways to ask for more $$$$$$.

[winneythepooh7]

P.S. How much of a salary increase are you looking to make at your current position?

Unfortunately I have found that unless you are going into some kind of supervisory or management role (and even then) or get a Master's degree, it's often quite difficult to ask for more than a couple percent/couple thousand dollar raise per year at a CURRENT employer. ETA some employers will even "max" you out at a certain amount so you are no longer getting annual raises. Often they will say you are eligible for "bonuses" because those tend to be an easy cop-out for a company to not pay out. They will blame the economy for lack of business. This has happened numerous times where I am currently.

Is setting boundaries and putting in less hours an option as well?

[gemma-dahl]

Hey Screen - I am trying to get the gist of what you are saying...we have kinda different writing styles, and you like very detailed explanations, whereas my nerd brain likes to-the-point grafs. So I apologize in advance if I am not understanding you.

If you're seeking career advice, methinks you should just lay it on the line with a job coach or whomever. How can that person help you if he doesn't understand what you want?

If you're looking for a raise, you should explain to your boss why you deserve it based on the value you bring to the company, and with examples, if possible.

If there isn't a potential for advancement, and your org. doesn't appreciate you, start looking elsewhere. I've gone through this myself, and so have my friends, and in every case, when someone feels they aren't in the right position, or are being taken advantage of at work, they're on the money.


I love the working world! It's fantastic! There was nothing wrong with my last job! Nothing at all! It was fantastic as well! Everything is fantastic! I just feel I need to broaden my horizons! I have much to learn here and I relish in the oppurtunity!

That's probably what I hate most about interviewing with human resources. :rolleyes: When I interview with a CEO or a manager, I feel we're actually having a business conversation. When I'm talking to personnel, I feel like I'm a puppet in a little play, furnishing the requisite answers.

I try to be positive on the board, but in reality, my work is very stressful, demanding, requires long hours, and I do believe I deserve good compensation, given the sheer number of high-level responsibilities and decisions I juggle.

Screen Name, I remember reading that you are being asked to work overtime every day (correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, you should start looking for a less stressful job. As I've found out myself the hard way, once you let your boss know that you're the "go-to, can-do" guy, he will depend on you to pull the all-nighters every time.

[wordsmith]

As I've found out myself the hard way, once you let your boss know that you're the "go-to, can-do" guy, he will depend on you to pull the all-nighters every time.

Truer words were never spoken.

[roulettefanatic]

i think it's natural for employers and human resources people to inflate the importance of certain positions.....i fell into a good trap with my first job (i'm still there partly because of the economy and partly because i'm still uncertain of what i want to do in the long run).....i originally interviewed for one position but was told i probably wouldn't be a good fit so i was put into the other one.....

it's basically an administrative job and i should have seen that from the beginning but being naive and fresh out of college, i fell for the act they put on.....they made the job sound much more important than it was.....and i work for a small employer so there really isn't anywhere to go as far as promotions are concerned.....

now employee morale is extremely low for various reasons and people are starting to be more honest and negative in their assessments of the place.....i just ran into my boss and i didn't expect her to do this but she unloaded all of her concerns about my coworkers and where the department was headed (i guess i'm one of the only ones she trusts to tell this to).....

and i feel badly about the situation since there's no reason for the place to become the zoo it's recently become.....so had someone been more honest with me in the beginning, i could have averted this disaster......

but what human resources person in their right mind is going to tell the truth about the place when their job in and of itself is to promote a somewhat healthy attitude and fill spots that need to be filled?....their own paychecks depend on it....

[Bocheezu]

That's probably what I hate most about interviewing with human resources. :rolleyes: When I interview with a CEO or a manager, I feel we're actually having a business conversation. When I'm talking to personnel, I feel like I'm a puppet in a little play, furnishing the requisite answers.

I always feel like I'm talking to a lawyer or a politician. People that you never trust and never feel at ease with. You always have to be so careful what you say and plan everything perfectly ahead of time to make absolute sure nothing can possibly be misconstrued as a negative, because it will surely be seen as a negative if you don't. Not to mention a bunch of other things that will be seen as negatives that you would never predict would be spun in such a way. It's really rather revolting the spin involved a lot of the time.

[Screen Name]

Well, I am in a very non-typical career, most of what I can demand for pay depends entirely on how "good my work looks"- literally. I am planning to further my education in the field out of passion for it, by for all intents and purposes it is not required for anything aside from personal fulfillment or maybe the option to teach later on.

My main problem now is I have become exactly the "go to can do guy" that is described above. The reason I ended up in this position is because this was a career change and I was eager to prove my skills at this new venture and I also wanted to establish good grounds for a raise as the whole thing involved a pay cut from what I used to earn, I also took this job with the clear expectation there would be steady room for growth up to a certain point, I was clear from day 1 that my expectation was performance=progression. I am not looking for a huge raise, more just something higher than ZERO, I'd be glad to just see a small gesture of reward beyond the verbal compliments I so often am showered with, just a few bucks to make me feel like I am moving in the right direction. Hell, my boss has actually admitted that I deserve an increase but he also has said he cannot get a raise for himself and he does not know when and in what amount they will be distributed, it is obvious now that I will need to break the normal chain of command to get a solid answer, to me jumping through these hoops for a simple annual increase of a few percent seems like a hassle and just easier to just move on if this is how they operate. It was clearly stated when I interviewed that my salary was a starting number and I would be able to move up over time up to a certain number, at the very least there was room to move, now having been there and getting 0% increase I feel turned off by the fact they basically lied to bring me on board. It's recently been been laid out for me that I was sold a few lies, I just don't think they expected me to take so much initiative and now they can't afford to pay me more, I just fail to understand that hiring people do not see the damage they do to us when they bait and switch- I left a higher paying job to take this one, had they told me there was no raise to be expected I probably would have said "no thanks", now here I am having to figure out another strategy again.

I have not put myself out there just yet, the plan is to get out and network my ass off I just need to wrap a few projects. I have no problem working 16 hours a day, but I only do it under the expectation that I will be eligible for a raise, these guys have proved that they do things differently and it's really not a good fit if that's how they are. I am just really confused how to talk about these reasons for leaving without sounding negative, I'll use common sense but overall I have a good read on people and I can sense discomfort when I discuss the salary freeze thing. There is money to be made in my field out there, a lot of my problem right now is geographic and my employer knows there are no other similar jobs in this area. Shame on me for thinking a short commute was important, I am sure me moving back to the city will be the first clue to them that I am looking, they know I am worth more it's just a matter of time.

[Screen Name]

i think it's natural for employers and human resources people to inflate the importance of certain positions.....i fell into a good trap with my first job (i'm still there partly because of the economy and partly because i'm still uncertain of what i want to do in the long run).....i originally interviewed for one position but was told i probably wouldn't be a good fit so i was put into the other one.....

it's basically an administrative job and i should have seen that from the beginning but being naive and fresh out of college, i fell for the act they put on.....they made the job sound much more important than it was.....and i work for a small employer so there really isn't anywhere to go as far as promotions are concerned.....

now employee morale is extremely low for various reasons and people are starting to be more honest and negative in their assessments of the place.....i just ran into my boss and i didn't expect her to do this but she unloaded all of her concerns about my coworkers and where the department was headed (i guess i'm one of the only ones she trusts to tell this to).....

and i feel badly about the situation since there's no reason for the place to become the zoo it's recently become.....so had someone been more honest with me in the beginning, i could have averted this disaster......

but what human resources person in their right mind is going to tell the truth about the place when their job in and of itself is to promote a somewhat healthy attitude and fill spots that need to be filled?....their own paychecks depend on it....


WOW... so much of this sounds very similar to what I am seeing as far as employee moral, small company/lack of growth, confessions from supervisors... wow. :heehee:

[winneythepooh7]

How long have you been there? And have you asked for a meeting to discuss your performance where you can ask about a raise?

A lot of employers I have worked for do NOT approach about these issues, even though they tell you they are supposed to.

It sounds like you are clearly frustrated (obviously) but if they won't give you a raise, there's not much you can do about that EXCEPT move on when something else opens up that is a higher salary, and in the meantime, just accept it and stop being their "go-to-can-do guy".

Just because your boss is not eligible for a raise either does not mean you are not. He may have topped out at a certain salary. I would go in there this morning and ask to set up a meeting for this Friday at the latest.

[winneythepooh7]

P.S. FWIW, at my current employer, when I decided I was no longer going to be responsible for my job and everyone elses too, which included working a zillion hours and having the job affect my personal life, what I was making per year seemed to be pretty fair and "money" (not that it really ever was, but I hear what you're saying) stopped being a significant motivator for me.


Now that I am working normal hours with manageable responsibilities, I am much happier. It was rocky though in the beginning setting those boundaries, however.

[callyna81]

So here's my new thing... Where do we draw the line on honesty when talking with career coaches, higher education career placement personnel, HR, hiring managers???

I am starting to feel like the only people I can be honest with is my friends, I mean truly honest with no bending of the truth. I ask this because I am wondering how career counselors really operate. It seems to me, from my past dealings with recruiters, which seem loosely similar to career coaches/counselors, that they only want to move forward with positive spinning scenarios. In all honesty, the reason why most leave jobs has to do with wanting more money, having a terrible boss, or some other negative aspect of a current situation, secondary of course is the desire to conquer new ground. If we all had progressive raises, fair and steady promotion, with people we enjoyed then there would be little need for changing jobs.

Career counsellors and recruiters are totally different things. Proper career counsellors are employed to give you objective advice on all things career related and have no business headhunting or promoting you. Recruiters are purely sales people : they match people with jobs and get paid by the employer to do so. Never confuse recruiters with career advisors. Similar skill sets, yes (I've done both), totally different objectives. One is to enhance self improvement for individuals and give them as unbiased opinions as to how to advance their career, the others' is to make commission and ensure as successful a match as possible.

[Screen Name]

Just wanted to type a quick response here...

I think overall the salary thing is not fiixable through advice on these boards, probably just easier and smarter for me to work elsewhere as the culture at this place is not worth trying to change. I have worked at plenty of places and believe me when I say this place is very unique, not all in bad ways either, there are some good things that come with it. I have asked and presented a strong case for a raise on 3 separate occaisions, I won't say exactly how long I have been here but it will be 2 years before I realize it. On those 3 salary discussions I basically convinced my boss that I deserve more but he has no direct control over inking my paycheck. He actually claimed to have asked for budget approval but was denied, so FWIW my boss 'tried' to get more money approval prior to my asking as he knew I would be looking for him to make good on everything we agreed upon my hiring. Without assuming too much I actually sensed he was embarrassed by the whole thing and the issues surrounding it, of course I'd love to know how hard he 'tried'. Next step up from there is the top of the mountain, president, owner, she is constantly on the road and not very easy to schedule time with. I don't fear asking her, but it's also something that needs perfect timing and a delecate approach, asking her directly is something most here would view as a last resort. Like I said, this place is unlike anywhere I have been, the longtime culture here is drastically different and I don't have the ability to change the way the company operates. I have done all the normal and even aggressive moves, going direct to the top on this one is not quite as easy as you might think. My boss is senior management level, I feel like a simple annual raise should not require a formal meeting between the owner and myself. I guess until you really have a feel for what the culture is and unless you really see what steps I have taken thus far it's pretty tough for me to do anything other than just go elsewhere. I have fought for raises in the past but after getting this much open praise and then rejected 3 times it just seems to be a dead horse, we did outline a plan to present and ask for more, my boss is willing to go to bat for me but it involves waiting longer and it also seems like a little annual bump should not require this much planning. The company has always been like this, sometimes they counteroffer when people resign, overall they are very oblivious to the employees and the need to keep them motivated, most coworkers just seem to lay down and accept the fact they won't get a raise for a few years unless the owner is feeling like it.

I have been straight with my career counsellor, he seems to not be scared off so that's good at least. I know networking will be different and as I get t know people I will have to make judgements on how honest to be. I think my main issue is that I am stuck on a stepping stone because they sent me mixed signals, now I need to figure out how honest I can be when I am asked, ''why are you looking?'' The good thing is I enjoy the work and the people are nice, 'hanging in there' should be easy aside from the empty praise and frozen salary, if they just put a little money up to match the feeback it would be a nearly perfect job.

[winneythepooh7]

What does your "career coach" recommend saying your reason should be for looking?

You can always just keep it simple and say something like "for continued professional development", "advancement" or "stronger career opportunities". I've never been questioned further when I use those.

[Screen Name]

Career coach's advice to me is "stick it out" and that I should be thankful I have a job right now that is in a field I enjoy. He advises that I don't get too hung up on what is going on now, or where I am, but more focus on where that will lead to and the road ahead. I "get" what he is saying, it's all about perspective. He is basically saying that I should look at the 'big picture' but I am more of a realist, I try to alter my perspective to retain my sanity at times but overall I am very in tune with "the now" and I am unable to look beyond everything at all times. Widening my perspective will only last so long, eventually my bills are going to remind me that the situation has not improved.

I actually have only hinted to my career coach that I am overworked and underpaid, I give a very good politically correct version of the truth unlike my unfiltered ranting on these boards. I am almost certain if I spelled out the entire truth to the career coach in plain terms he would either tell me to start looking or he would think I am a drama queen, it's "just a job", and that I am overreacting. For me this is more than a job though, I am very passionate about what I do and that might be part of the problem since many of the things I am unhappy with are at the mercy of my employer's checkbook. Who's to say the next company I work for won't freeze salaries too? I will say though, the place I work is too small and I do want to be somewhere with more room for growth, I will outgrow these shoes eventually or I will wash out of the industry, either way one or the other this will not be where I retire at.

So, basically the career coach thinks it's not really the time to be looking, but they also don't have all the details or a look at my timecard and pay stub. I'm going to keep doing my thing but I will be networking a lot more and I will keep my eyes open, for the past few months I have been trapped because of my schedule but I think things will open up shortly and I feel optimistic. They like me and they are going to lose me if they don't put something up soon, I honestly think they will have a very tough time finding someone to fill in all the gaps I leave behind.

[roulettefanatic]

there are mixed messages there....on one hand you should be happy you have a job that's in the field you want to be in, which is more than a lot of people can say but on the other hand you're not being appreciated paywise and there isn't really somewhere to go within the company.....i guess it depends at this point what your priority is.....

from what you said about paying the bills, obviously money is an issue (it is for 99% of people) so i think working overtime and busting your butt for no raise and no higher compensation is not acceptable......

at this point is it really a matter of simply "paying your dues"? i think networking could come in handy since you can use the job as a catapult to something more interesting and better-paying......

and lastly, i realize that on a fundamental level, many of us are lucky to have jobs but how much more can the economy be used as an excuse to take advantage of good workers who are only looking for a fair deal? i don't want to come across as insensitive to those who are actively pursuing employment but what's up with these companies who think you owe them the world because they decided to keep you on and not give you a raise?.....the last time i checked the workers were keeping the company afloat.....

i'm personally bitter about this because just today my boss came to me with the news that we not only have to do our regular computer work but now do phone work as well even though some of us never did phone work.....we were never consulted about our job duties changing.....and the whole time i was thinking, yeah, sure and where is the raise? there has to be a limit somewhere.....it's like the whole conversation between employers and employees has changed.....

[Screen Name]

there are mixed messages there....on one hand you should be happy you have a job that's in the field you want to be in, which is more than a lot of people can say but on the other hand you're not being appreciated paywise and there isn't really somewhere to go within the company.....i guess it depends at this point what your priority is.....

from what you said about paying the bills, obviously money is an issue (it is for 99% of people) so i think working overtime and busting your butt for no raise and no higher compensation is not acceptable......

at this point is it really a matter of simply "paying your dues"? i think networking could come in handy since you can use the job as a catapult to something more interesting and better-paying......

and lastly, i realize that on a fundamental level, many of us are lucky to have jobs but how much more can the economy be used as an excuse to take advantage of good workers who are only looking for a fair deal? i don't want to come across as insensitive to those who are actively pursuing employment but what's up with these companies who think you owe them the world because they decided to keep you on and not give you a raise?.....the last time i checked the workers were keeping the company afloat.....

i'm personally bitter about this because just today my boss came to me with the news that we not only have to do our regular computer work but now do phone work as well even though some of us never did phone work.....we were never consulted about our job duties changing.....and the whole time i was thinking, yeah, sure and where is the raise? there has to be a limit somewhere.....it's like the whole conversation between employers and employees has changed.....

If there were an :applaud: icon I would use it, well said.

[gemma-dahl]

Career coach's advice to me is "stick it out" and that I should be thankful I have a job right now that is in a field I enjoy. He advises that I don't get too hung up on what is going on now, or where I am, but more focus on where that will lead to and the road ahead. I "get" what he is saying, it's all about perspective.

So, basically the career coach thinks it's not really the time to be looking, but they also don't have all the details or a look at my timecard and pay stub. I'm going to keep doing my thing but I will be networking a lot more (...) I honestly think they will have a very tough time finding someone to fill in all the gaps I leave behind.

I only agree with your coach so far as the notion that you should stick it out IF you can handle it and IF you don't have enough money to be without a job. What I DON'T agree with is the notion that "it isn't the time to be looking." When has it ever hurt to look? When has it ever hurt to network? I think, never; knowing what's out there is only an asset to you. And if your coach doesn't want to hear the truth about your job, it's time to start looking for a new coach.

Agreed also on what winney said about setting limits. Now is the time to stop being the "go-to" guy. If your pay isn't in line with your duties, and if you keep on getting heaps and heaps of extra duties without so much as a dime of a raise, start setting limits. It will suck at first. People will be upset. And since I'm not at your office with you, I can't give you advice about how to start setting these limits. But if you want to keep your sanity while you look for a new job, I think you MUST start setting limits.

[Screen Name]

I only agree with your coach so far as the notion that you should stick it out IF you can handle it and IF you don't have enough money to be without a job. What I DON'T agree with is the notion that "it isn't the time to be looking." When has it ever hurt to look? When has it ever hurt to network? I think, never; knowing what's out there is only an asset to you. And if your coach doesn't want to hear the truth about your job, it's time to start looking for a new coach.

Agreed also on what winney said about setting limits. Now is the time to stop being the "go-to" guy. If your pay isn't in line with your duties, and if you keep on getting heaps and heaps of extra duties without so much as a dime of a raise, start setting limits. It will suck at first. People will be upset. And since I'm not at your office with you, I can't give you advice about how to start setting these limits. But if you want to keep your sanity while you look for a new job, I think you MUST start setting limits.

Yeah I completely agree... I have been setting limits more or less by walking out on time and if that means the "on fire" work is unfinished until the next day then so be it. Shame on them for taking advantage of my eagerness and making false promises, shame on me if I let it continue. I have also mentioned I will go back to my old ways and gladly work extra if they simply increase my pay, at some point they will write a bigger check or I will resign, it's just a matter of when as all things come to an end at some point. I like the work so I don't feel pressure to resign, there is a big element of widespread laziness amongst the longtime staff, I am now starting to see why the veteran staff are so laid back. I will crank it back a bit and certainly plan to keep my options open, the main problem is it's hard for me to check my passion at the door, but if they aren't going to reward me then I am not going to break my back doing a no-pay double shift for a standing ovation and no extra pay.

[gemma-dahl]

Yeah I completely agree... I have been setting limits more or less by walking out on time and if that means the "on fire" work is unfinished until the next day then so be it.



Glad to hear it. Very little work is actually mission critical the way it's so often hyped up to be.

I understand the difficulty of checking passion at the door. That's why I've recently decided to start working on a novel. I actually feel like I'm writing toward my own personal goals, and it's something to look forward to after a hard week. Do you do anything creative on the side? Just curious. I stopped doing anything "fun" for a long time and it's completely miserable. I'm kinda still trying to re-kindle passion for creativity.


I always feel like I'm talking to a lawyer or a politician. People that you never trust and never feel at ease with. You always have to be so careful what you say and plan everything perfectly ahead of time to make absolute sure nothing can possibly be misconstrued as a negative, because it will surely be seen as a negative if you don't. Not to mention a bunch of other things that will be seen as negatives that you would never predict would be spun in such a way. It's really rather revolting the spin involved a lot of the time.

I think one reason interviewing with personnel is so frustrating is that for many professional or managerial jobs, the "ideal" candidate has already been determined. Many job postings are a formality. If your interviewer looks like she's trying to find a way to eliminate you, she very well could be - in a CYA, cover-all-the-bases kinda way. Makes going into an interview all the more fun, no? :p Yeah, I don't like that, either.

[gemma-dahl]

what's up with these companies who think you owe them the world because they decided to keep you on and not give you a raise?

I'm into this thread and just want to say that I know exactly what kind of company you mean.

I know that no one is owed a living without working for it, but at the same time, there are people on this board (and everywhere, really) with bachelors AND masters degrees who are probably being offered "professional" jobs with laundry lists of duties at pay rates not much above the minimum wage...because that is what the employers can get away with at this time. I think some people will get what they are willing to pay for, and others will lose good employees because they won't pay their workers what they're really worth.

[Screen Name]

Do you do anything creative on the side? Just curious.

I actually have quite a few projects on the side that are just for me, problem is I am usually too beat down after work to make progress on them.

So I made an attempt to push back on something today where my personal time was being demanded and I feel like it went very bad. Aside from being stormed out on and having my personal interests brought into and questioned in the conversation it actually got rather nasty, I am very disgusted and unmotivated from the whole thing. The element of "choice" was more or less removed, still rewinding in my head and I just have never seen anything like this, and I have been around the block to the point where I thought I saw it all until today. I am constantly praised, treated like it is "wrong" of me to want more money, like they try to make me feel guilty when I mention asking for a review!!! and now I am presented with very a demanding new set of tasks and if I refuse I more or less seal my fate as killing the trust they have, which means any hope of getting a raise will be gone, there is still hope and they are using that hope to string me along, damn I want to quit just to send the message to them that I am tired of the games. I am really just confused, if I could get more specific it would make more sense but it's just a waste of time and I value my privacy too much to risk it. In short, because I have done such a great job I am being "rewarded" with an "opportunity" to bust my ass on a very challenging high-level special project, which coincidentally happens to fall on the same dates that I have had something planned for a very long time. I fail to understand how it is really like I am in the Twilight Zone, other people in the room that witnessed what went on were speechless, I think one person said "wow, that's crazy", is quite literally is almost like better ability to deliver results is bringing me a workload that is more comparable to punishment. I won't continue to get into details for I am at the point where anyone that knows me would be able to identify me easily here.

I am going to take a few weeks away from the boards to get beat on by my employer while I continue to send the message that I have boundaries, clearly this is going to be like trying to potty train a toddler judging by how it got childish today. It is likely that my next post here will be about job searching, I just need space to work this out. I never though people would react in such a childish way today, very disappointing.

[roulettefanatic]

I'm into this thread and just want to say that I know exactly what kind of company you mean.

I know that no one is owed a living without working for it, but at the same time, there are people on this board (and everywhere, really) with bachelors AND masters degrees who are probably being offered "professional" jobs with laundry lists of duties at pay rates not much above the minimum wage...because that is what the employers can get away with at this time. I think some people will get what they are willing to pay for, and others will lose good employees because they won't pay their workers what they're really worth.

i agree, i must say i was nervous about coming across as insensitive to those who aren't working.....i think it's more than obvious that employers have the upper hand in today's economy....they are certainly taking advantage of it judging by what's been written on these boards....

today at work i was informed, along with the rest of my department, that plenty of people were lined up to take our jobs if we weren't willing to keep them.....not only was i angry with the tone that was taken but i'm also sure none of my work is being appreciated.....

my desire to go to this job right now is almost less than zero even though that doesn't seem possible.....but truth be told, the circumstances of the economy are keeping me there...i don't have a lot of work experience overall.....at the end of the day i'm angry with myself for settling for this when i did, i should have known i deserved better.....you know what they say, you live and you learn.....

[roulettefanatic]

I am going to take a few weeks away from the boards to get beat on by my employer while I continue to send the message that I have boundaries, clearly this is going to be like trying to potty train a toddler judging by how it got childish today. It is likely that my next post here will be about job searching, I just need space to work this out. I never though people would react in such a childish way today, very disappointing.

good luck with everything Screen Name :)