Trusting men

[Echo]

Recently I have come to the realisation that I may be single all my life - I'll probably have flings or 'romances' every once in a while. If I do find the perfect guy for me, it will be a miracle because I somehow feel that the odds are stacked against me.

I have been volunteering with a domestic violence charity and have been reading books and articles about the subject. The fact is, domestic violence is overwhelmingly something perpetrated by men towards women. Even if there are violent women out there, it won't affect me much because there's less of them and it's easier to break off a friendship with them, so my issue isn't violent people in general, my issue is with violent men.

I fear going into a relationship with a violent man because from what I hear, it's hell on earth. Compared to being beaten up, emotionally abused, being kept prisoner in your own home, I would rather have a simple and somewhat incomplete life as a spinster. I'm scared of taking risks. I have heard that 1 in 4 women will experience violence in their lives and that 37% of all marriages will be violent. Those are shocking statistics.

Now I know there are plenty of decent men out there, men who respect women and have a completely healthy notion of relationships, men who are secure enough not to do that to another human being. And I'm well aware of the early warning signs such as excessive jealousy in a man, a man who is angry at everyone and everything in the world and who makes you seem like his saviour etc, but there are plenty of women who are educated, aware of these things who still enter into such relationships and I don't want to be one of them.

I'm worried that I will attract abusive men because I'm attracted to men who are powerful and influential.

Either I have to accept that I'll be single for the rest of my life, or I have to be in a boring relationship with a totally harmless, and pathetic guy who worships the ground I walk on (like my ex) because all the best men (ie the ones decent, goodl-looking ones with dignity) are taken by other women.

Please tell me I'm mistaken.

[sorry for the depressing rant, I'm having one of those moments]

[DaneCA]

You're in the UK, right, Echo? I read a similar statistic recently (maybe the same one - I can't remember the exact percentage), and a discussion of why domestic violence and sexual abuse is so prevalent there.

It's interesting that many people assume that women who "let" their significant others abuse them are weak and insecure. But after having volunteered with a battered women's shelter, and being that I'm really good friends with a girl whose boyfriend physically abused her for years (none of her friends knew this until after they broke up, when she finally told us), I don't think that's true. These are, for the most part, strong, smart, independent women who may be weak when it comes to relationships but aren't in life in general.

There are definitely certain guys/trends to avoid, though, and I also think that simply assuming you'll be abused and avoiding getting into a relationship for that reason is really limiting yourself. We've all been hurt by past relationships in some way, shape or form. If I avoided all guys just because my first boyfriend broke my heart I'd be single for life, too, but I refuse to let that stop me from dating, even though it definitely makes me a bit wary of getting too attached.

There are plenty of good guys out there who aren't pathetic and also won't abuse you. It just takes some time to find the right guy, and if you see any warning signs, get out before it's too late.

[oldmanwinter]

I have heard that 1 in 4 women will experience violence in their lives and that 37% of all marriages will be violent. Those are shocking statistics.
Shocking, yes. But also worded to provoke a strong reaction. Violence is never healthy, but one slap across the wrist in an otherwise happy marriage is not hell on earth. Not every instance of abuse will be like you see in the movies.

Keep in mind that according to the same study, 1 in 9 men also will experience domestic violence in their lifetime. The chances of you being the abuser are almost as great. ;)

The same study also alluded that those who live in poverty are at much greater risk of abuse. Those who are powerful and influential are rarely poor. Another point in your favor.

There is no doubt that abuse is a serious problem for many people of both genders. I remain skeptical about the numbers presented, however. It seems that it is a much more complicated story.

[winneythepooh7]

I would agree with the statistics. Keep in mind, that abuse can also be both verbal and emotional as well. I am sure that probably happens a lot more often then physical abuse, and it can be just as "violent" and devestating. And I would venture to guess that having money has nothing to do with making the #'s go down. In fact, it can make the situation worse, because if people see you as being powerful and pretigious, it works in your favor to think that you wouldn't be an abuser, or, be a woman abused.

[oldmanwinter]

Keep in mind, that abuse can also be both verbal and emotional as well.
From what I could find, the study was limited to physical abuse. It would be interesting to see the numbers including emotional abuse, as it is, as you mentioned, even more prevalent.

You may be right about the financial status, but the study made a specific note about those who live in poverty which leads me to believe that it is statistically significant. Why else would they make note of it?

[Echo]

Shocking, yes. But also worded to provoke a strong reaction. Violence is never healthy, but one slap across the wrist in an otherwise happy marriage is not hell on earth. Not every instance of abuse will be like you see in the movies.

I know, but what I'm talking about isn't simply a guy or woman losing their temper and hitting their partner out of genuine frustration. I'm talking about someone ready to 'lose control' at the drop of a hat - it's rarely about losing control, in fact the abuser is usually aware of what they're doing and are pretty much in control. I used to work in an elementary school, I've seen how teachers shout at children at the drop of a hat. Its acting. It's a form of control and some men are good at shouting and trampling on others to get what they want or to make others obey them.

Keep in mind that according to the same study, 1 in 9 men also will experience domestic violence in their lifetime. The chances of you being the abuser are almost as great. ;)

I personally am not an abusive person but my sister is and I genuinely feel sorry for the man she will marry...

The same study also alluded that those who live in poverty are at much greater risk of abuse. Those who are powerful and influential are rarely poor. Another point in your favor.

I don't think middle class women are less likely to be abused, after all, it affects women from all walks of life but they're more likely to know how to use the internet to seek help and become aware and they usually have relatives who can help them financially to get out of that situation. In my case, I have 2 sisters who work in Domestic Violence (ironic since one of them commits DV but whatever) so I know I can rely on them and that they've got my back.

There is no doubt that abuse is a serious problem for many people of both genders. I remain skeptical about the numbers presented, however. It seems that it is a much more complicated story.

I really hope so because the statistics I've been reading, coupled with the women I've been listening have made me so sad about the state of things in general. I don't think I'm going to continue with the volunteering, it's too painful.

I posted this same thread on the confessions page on gumtree and someone had a good point and it's that I can try to take things slowly with guys and get to know their character and look out for warning signs since I'm very aware of what they are, but what I can't do is live in fear and not take any risks because I will limit myself too much.

[Echo]

I would agree with the statistics. Keep in mind, that abuse can also be both verbal and emotional as well. I am sure that probably happens a lot more often then physical abuse, and it can be just as "violent" and devestating. And I would venture to guess that having money has nothing to do with making the #'s go down. In fact, it can make the situation worse, because if people see you as being powerful and pretigious, it works in your favor to think that you wouldn't be an abuser, or, be a woman abused.

A lot of the time, women are simply too ashamed to let the people closest to them know about it. And when they do decide to leave their partner (which in itself is a mammoth task), it's usually the 7th or 9th or 11th time their partner has gone too far. Some women stay married and even have children with the abuser and wait for their children to grow up so they can finally leave.

[FloridaGirl25]

I have heard that 1 in 4 women will experience violence in their lives and that 37% of all marriages will be violent. Those are shocking statistics.


Perspective is reality.

How would you feel if the article stated:
"3 in 4 women will experience peaceful, loving relationships in their lives and 63% of all marriages will be happy. Those are inspiring statistics."

[analogman]

I would think that one would be able to tell if their partner would be abusive during the dating phase. It's not just how the other person treats you, but how he/she treats everyone else. I think treatment of people in the service/retail industry is especially telling.

Of course, one needs to be willing and able to break off the relationship once some warning signs are spotted, and that's not necessarily an easy thing. It doesn't take long before "I'll give him/her another chance, he/she is really sorry this time and won't do it again" turns into and bad habit....

[analogman]

Perspective is reality.

How would you feel if the article stated:
"3 in 4 women will experience peaceful, loving relationships in their lives and 63% of all marriages will be happy. Those are inspiring statistics."

I don't completely agree the above statement is the opposite of the originally posted statement. Not being abused doesn't not equal being cherished. Non-violent marriages do not equal happy marriages.

Something like this is closer: "3 in 4 women will not experience violence in their lives and 63% of all marriages will be non-violent." Decidedly ho-hum life I'd say.

[Skyblade]

I left an abusive relationship about 2 years ago. Despite this experience, I still believe there are good men out there. I've had 2 boyfriends since then and both of them have been way better choices than the abusive guy. I have not gotten into another abusive situation since.

I was with the abuser for 2.5 years and it took me about a year to get out. I'd say 6 months before I left the situation is when I made the decision to leave. It was the scariest thing I've ever done, but by far the best thing I've ever done. It's made me appreciate life and its made me realize how important it is to surround yourself with positive/happy/uplifting people and to stay away from people (guys especially) who have a general hatred towards other people or mean-spirited towards others/life.

I am always afraid to tell people about my experience because there are so many stereotypes about women who get involved in these situations. I'm a successful professional, college graduate, have never done drugs, etc., but somehow I got involved with this guy. I've come to realize it has a lot to do with my childhood, things I felt I was missing, and my own insecurities. I don't blame myself for his behavior anymore and realize now that despite whatever insecurities I have, I deserve to be treated with respect. I haven't lost hope that I will find an equal partner someday, and even though the boyfriends I've had since haven't worked out, I commend myself on making better choices.

[Skyblade]

I would think that one would be able to tell if their partner would be abusive during the dating phase. It's not just how the other person treats you, but how he/she treats everyone else. I think treatment of people in the service/retail industry is especially telling.

Of course, one needs to be willing and able to break off the relationship once some warning signs are spotted, and that's not necessarily an easy thing. It doesn't take long before "I'll give him/her another chance, he/she is really sorry this time and won't do it again" turns into and bad habit....

I can tell these signs now, but couldn't in the past. Abusive guys are notoriously very charming in the beginning.

[winneythepooh7]

I can tell these signs now, but couldn't in the past. Abusive guys are notoriously very charming in the beginning.

Agreed 100%. I also think it's learned behavior through their own family upbringing.

[FloridaGirl25]

I don't completely agree the above statement is the opposite of the originally posted statement. Not being abused doesn't not equal being cherished. Non-violent marriages do not equal happy marriages.

Something like this is closer: "3 in 4 women will not experience violence in their lives and 63% of all marriages will be non-violent." Decidedly ho-hum life I'd say.

The opposite of violence = peace. True, non-violent marriages do not equal happy marriages but the sense of the first article was one of fear and danger from being in a violent situation. The contrast would be one experiencing love and happiness, or at least security, in their relationship. Semantics aside, the point is, the original statistics are not shocking. They're not even half the population, and even if they were, why be afraid of being included in the abused half but not be hopeful about being included in the non-abused half? especially when non-abusive relationships are statistically the norm.

[FloridaGirl25]

I left an abusive relationship about 2 years ago. Despite this experience, I still believe there are good men out there. I've had 2 boyfriends since then and both of them have been way better choices than the abusive guy. I have not gotten into another abusive situation since.

It's made me appreciate life and its made me realize how important it is to surround yourself with positive/happy/uplifting people and to stay away from people (guys especially) who have a general hatred towards other people or mean-spirited towards others/life.


What an inspiration!!! Good for you :) And I'm sure your life is more enriched and treasured because of the experience.

[ebrillblaiddes]

I really don't think either gender is more abusive than the other, it's just different tools that each uses. In very broad terms, men are more physically abusive (hitting, punching, threatening violence, etc.) and women are more emotionally abusive (belittling, excessive arguing, withholding sex for power {I don't mean not feeling like it on occasion, I mean using it as her way of controlling him}, etc.). However, it's also probable that women's physical violence is vastly underreported because, let's face it ladies, most of us are not muscularly equipped to do as much damage as most guys...and in this culture males are not considered especially manly for reporting anything that doesn't require an ER visit.

I've heard of several cases where the girl got in the guy's face and wouldn't let him get away (e.g. he was in a corner) and got shoved--in that situation, he's the one who ends up being labeled the abuser because he physically lashed out, but on the other hand, you could call what she did an emotional attack, and then him trying to get away by shoving her if that was what it took ends up looking more like self defense. (I'm not saying anyone's right--that was an intentionally oversimplified situation since that kind of thing would go back and forth several times to build momentum and get out of hand, so they're both wrong for letting it get that far--I'm just saying it's not always as simple as good girl/bad guy even if the guy laid a hand on her.)

On a tangent, another thing I don't understand is women who have one abusive guy, get away, and then get with another. Like, they summoned all that strength and learned to respect theirselves and all that, to get away from the first one, so how do they pick the next one?

And, specific to the OP's concern...why not be open to the idea of a special guy but really really picky about who gets that job? If a guy that meets your standards comes along, great. If not, oh well, you wouldn't have been happy with a jerk anyway. As long as you don't pick an incredible bastard or put a normal guy into a situation where a physical response is the best thing he can come up with (I don't mean being a doormat, just the same reasonable niceness that we manage to give the checkout lady at the grocery store who we see for 2 minutes), I really don't think getting abused needs to be high on any woman's worry list.

[hoodie]

Like Skyblade, I also have been in (and gotten out of) an abusive relationship. Even though it was in high school, it was pretty much my first relationship, which is a bit of a mindf*ck to put it very lightly.

Regardless, Skyblade said it better than I can. It doesn't ruin you unless you let it, and to shut out the possibility of love to shut out the possibility of abuse is, to me, kind of a sad thing. I have learned so much about myself and what love really is since then and I am with someone now who's the "real deal". It'd be a shame if I had been so scared to fall into a similar pattern that I'd never opened myself up to dating, to love, and, ultimately, to this relationship which makes me happier than I ever could have dreamed.

It's everyone's own choice, Echo, and if you genuinely would be pleased to go your own way and are happy with that life sans regrets, go for it. But if you're choosing this more out of fear, that wouldn't be good.

[Peter Trump]

I really don't think either gender is more abusive than the other, it's just different tools that each uses. In very broad terms, men are more physically abusive (hitting, punching, threatening violence, etc.) and women are more emotionally abusive (belittling, excessive arguing, withholding sex for power {I don't mean not feeling like it on occasion, I mean using it as her way of controlling him}, etc.). However, it's also probable that women's physical violence is vastly underreported because, let's face it ladies, most of us are not muscularly equipped to do as much damage as most guys...and in this culture males are not considered especially manly for reporting anything that doesn't require an ER visit.


I agree with this completely. The idea that men are so scary and women are so innocent is a little off. Both sides bring their own BS to the table.

But in regard to your issue trusting men... I don't think being "powerful" has anything to do with a man being abusive. Abusive men are usually powerless and being abusive gives them a sense of power. The type of guy you seem to like is probably more likely to cheat on you than hit you.

Don't let fear rule your life. Whats the point of living if you're just going to spend your life cowering under a table?

[ScottyTheBody]

What I find odd is the idea that's being portrayed by the OP about how a guy can be either abusive OR pathetic and weak if he's not already taken.

I hope she doesn't mean this. I mean another way of analyzing this interpretation, logically, is if he's not abusive then he would fall under the pathetic, "boring" and weak category.

[roulettefanatic]

i agree with much that has previously been said as far as starting to look at the other side of the statistics.....and the best part about your original post Echo is that you are aware of a potential problem and concerned enough about it, either through your volunteering work or otherwise, to know what the warning signs and consequences are of being in that kind of relationship.....to me, this means you will probably not end up in one without at least being aware of something being wrong....this should comfort you.....

and on top of that, i think that while it may be statistically true that it's more likely for a man to abuse his wife than the other way around, i agree that there is also a stigma for men when it comes to reporting spousal abuse.....they will probably think twice about saying something if they are afraid it will make them look somewhat weak or vulnerable....and that's wrong too but probably not going to change any time soon.....i would also think that men are more likely to fall victim to emotional abuse.....

that being said, you're not doing yourself any favors by taking the statistic and applying it to most men.....it's simply not true that most women will undergo abuse in their relationships so for you to not take the risk of going on dates and getting to know men is only going to hurt you in the end.....in fact, that's the only way to ensure that you will be hurting yourself, regardless of the fear you have about the relationships themselves....just know the warning signs and keep a positive attitude about it....and if your volunteering work is adding to this fear and this holding back, i would consider another area of service to which you could devote your time.....you should be getting something positive out of volunteering as well....

and lastly, it is possible to find a harmless and nice guy who isn't pathetic and doesn't just exist to worship the ground you walk on and who doesn't happen to be married or taken.....in fact, i know a guy just like that who just hasn't happened to find someone special despite the dates he's been on.....

you say you like influential and powerful men but that doesn't simply correlate to them being abusive by default....i have to be completely honest here, i have a relative in an abusive relationship and her husband is anything but powerful and influential....just some thoughts, i hope they help.....

[Skyblade]

I agree with this completely. The idea that men are so scary and women are so innocent is a little off. Both sides bring their own BS to the table.

But in regard to your issue trusting men... I don't think being "powerful" has anything to do with a man being abusive. Abusive men are usually powerless and being abusive gives them a sense of power. The type of guy you seem to like is probably more likely to cheat on you than hit you.

Don't let fear rule your life. Whats the point of living if you're just going to spend your life cowering under a table?

I agree, at least in my case, I realized later that my ex was very very insecure.