FDA issues suicide caution for antidepressants [Archive]

Layback

03-23-2004, 10:33 AM

I went from being down, but calm, to completely restless and miserable. Within a few weeks I was sleeping two hours a night and I resembled the walking dead. It destroyed my personality, took away my emotions, and loaded me with anxiety, in a situation that was already bad.

All this from someone who prides themself on their ability to remain calm while in a situation that has the ability to become deadly if one little thing is overlooked (rock climbing).

pisces2473

03-23-2004, 10:43 AM

I took Prozac for 3 or 4 days and HATED it. Then we tried Celexa and I felt great almost immediately. Dumb luck, I guess.

Layback

03-23-2004, 11:00 AM

I took it for 5 months when I became "depressed" in college and then again for 3 weeks last year when I was afraid that I was about to go through the same thing again. Gee - it's really funny that I went through the same thing again isn't it?

I guess for whatever reason I needed to know the truth. Seems to me that I might have found out sooner or later anyway.

pittgirl

03-23-2004, 12:05 PM

Antidepressants can be a great thing but they can lead to very bad side effects. There are instances where they have lead to suicide, but those cases are very rare and often found in young people like teenagers. Plus I think everyone is too over-medicated, I do believe everyone on antidepressants needs them but I also think some people look at them as a quick fix. Prozac is pretty strong, it is known as one of the quicker meds that works immediately. With any meds there are going to be bad side effects, I think that this made people more worried because it's like 3-4 cases out of millions of people taking them and there are other reasons for the sucide. I hope I didn't offend anyone, I apologize. It happens when you're a psych-well former-psych major!

kitalyn414

03-23-2004, 01:29 PM

i once took one of my dad's zolofts to see what would happen. (yes, i AM crazy). i was bouncing around the idea of going on antidepressants for a while, and i kind of assumed that nothing would happen if i took "just one." well, i was very wrong. i didn't sleep for 2 days & was EXTREMELY agitated. i basically felt insane until it FINALLY wore off. i'm not surprised that someone would feel compelled to kill themselves in such a state.

obviously, it is not a good idea to self-prescribe. maybe i don't suffer from depression. maybe i was just in a down-cycle. who knows? i think it is similar with the 100-some million antidepressants that are prescribed. are ALL of these people really depressed? if they are, can their depression be managed in other ways?

Layback

03-23-2004, 01:31 PM

If prozac works to produce more seratonin/endorphins, why not just prescribe exercise, which is known to have a better, and more pure effect? If depression/anxiety occurs when the fight/flight response is triggered to an overload of stressors, why would you give someone a pill that could potentially at more stress/anxiety? Why not just appease the fight/flight response and run/work out? Why would a shrink give me more meds to counteract the side-effects of the medication I was on? This is what happened to me and it nearly ruined my life.

To remove the adrenaline - run.

To get happy again - time.

There is no formal proof that a pill has ever made anyone happy with the set of circumstances they are faced with. Only time and a better prespective can do this. However, pills have been proven to push people over the edge, and Eli Lilly, among others, has been keeping this quiet for ages. See the Prozac Truth Website (http://www.prozactruth.com) for more info. Luckily for me, I have a high-enough threshold for pain to withstand it, without doing anything stupid to myself.

How many other people went through what I went through and are not documented cases because we didn't kill ourselves? Why is it that in America, where we prosecute Proctor-Gamble, and other makers of cigarettes, for lying to America and marketing a deadly and addictive drug, while knowing full and well that it causes cancer, that we do not crucify these drug makers when they have had knowledge of these potentially deadly and addictive side-effects all along?

pisces2473

03-23-2004, 01:37 PM

While I totally agree with you Joe about the exercise/depression connection, I think that they give people drugs first is because if you're truly depressed, you don't want to get out of bed, never mind go running. :) A responsible doctor would prescribe the drugs, but as the patient starts to improve, the doctor should prescribe a fitness regimen as well. At least my doctor did and I do feel better when I exercise.

Layback

03-23-2004, 01:49 PM

I think the first thing to do is to talk about depression and anxiety and explain what it is. The next thing is to prescribe exercise. If you can't make it happen on exercise alone, then try the meds. However, doctors don't do a reasonable enough job in my mind of explaining the potential shortfalls and negative side-effect. Furthermore, when things get worse (after taking the pill) they prescribe more pills, increase the dose, and basically make you think that you are nuts and that it's not the pill at all. Not to mention the fact that you are already scared out of your mind to begin with. No wonder life doesn't make sense and you are totally freaked out. Your "solution" is creating more distress.

Why is it that you cannot sit through a prime-time show without seeing a commercial for Zoloft or Wellbutrin. Every time I see one of these commercials, I can't help but wonder why there isn't a warning there (like the old cigarette commercials) stating that taking these pills can potentially make your situation worse, and that it's important to understand the side-effects. There's a warning, but it's not enough. It's like a cigarette commercial warning that smoking cigarettes can potentially make you cough.

pittgirl

03-23-2004, 01:52 PM

I agree with you Layback and Pisces. The person should try and do something else before being put on medications. Sometimes though, there are people who are extremely depressed, and they need the meds just to get them going in the morning. Most of the time, the doctors will try to wean the patient off of them after about 6 months to a year when they feel the patient is doing better. Also, some doctors make sure that the person is seeing a therapist at the same time the meds are prescribed. I don't think medications by themselves work at all. You need more than meds. I think our nation has become a quick fix nation, and they did it with something as serious as anti-depressants.

pisces2473

03-23-2004, 02:25 PM

My doctor told me that if I wanted to feel my best I needed to do the following:
1. get exercise
2. eat a healthy diet
3. no alcohol
4. stay away from too much sugar and caffeine
5. stick to a regular sleep schedule
6. enjoy myself (find time for fun)

I'm still on drugs, but I'm really on a low dose and haven't had to do the medicine dance. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

Lynn0623

03-23-2004, 03:33 PM

I have to agree with Pittgirl that we have become a nation that looks to drugs to fix everything (i.e. a quick fix nation). A person will get a cold or the flu and expect their doctor to prescribe a drug to cure them when rest and fluids will typically do the trick.

paperjam1015

03-23-2004, 03:41 PM

As someone who has worked with lots of clients both children and adults on antidepressants I have seen their value. I agree that people need to take a look at their environment/lifestyle to what they can change. Medication alone won't cut it. The clients that I have worked with that only relied on medication or took their medication inconsistently (ie. only when they felt bad) felt that the meds didn't work and/or felt the side effects worse than those who attempted change. Most of those who made changes eventually were able to successly decrease their meds unti they no longer needed them.

As far as Tourette's, This is generally inherited, not caused by meds. I have talked to families and professionals who had children who were first treated for ADHD or depression who later developed Tourette's It wasn't related to the meds. It's one of those things that just develops later. It's kind of like people who think they have a bad cold then find out they have bronchitis.

One of the problems in both situations is doctors who don't ask the right questions or who don't specialize in these mental health issues. I hate to see a child on Ritalin that the pediatrician prescribed. Often we take these kids off of meds and they are fine or they need meds for a different issue all together. They generally don't discuss any behavior modification/parenting skills/learning styles with parents/teachers before medicating. Sometimes the kids are just undisciplined brats otehr times there might be an anxiety disorder or depression that manifests itself with simailar symptoms of ADHD in chiildren. If a parent has concerns about ADHD a doctor should refer them directly to a specialist. The specialist will do a more thorough screening to determine the actual issue.

pisces2473

03-23-2004, 04:22 PM

Thank YOU Paperjam! :bigger:

paperjam1015

03-23-2004, 04:27 PM

No problem...

I just hate to see misinformation keep people who genuinely need help from seeking it. People have to educate themselves on these things instead of taking a doctors word for it. They can't feel what's going on or see symptoms on a daily basis. They have to rely totally of the bit of info they get in just a few mins.

Different meds work differently for diiferent people. There are certain antibiotics I can't take (you really don't want to know what they do to me...trust me) Antibiotics are also far too overprescribed. It doesn't mean that no one should take those meds. It also doesn't mean that doctor's should never prescribe them. They just need to get more info from patients and make better decisions about when they are appropriate.

pisces2473

03-23-2004, 04:31 PM

Yes, I totally agree with you. I don't like how people who are totally misinformed jump on this "down with antidepressants" bandwagon. I think ALL drugs are over-prescribed, antibiotics probably moreso than antidepressants. People need to be their own advocates when they see their physicians, instead of letting their doctors do whatever.

Layback

03-23-2004, 04:40 PM

I agree. However, doctors have been misinformed by the manufacturers of the product and there is documented proof. How then can a doctor properly educate a patient on side effects if they are convinced that it's in the patient's head or symptoms of the patient's anxiety.

Please read this so you can understand what I mean.

Internal Lilly Documents at Forsyth Trial Reveal Knowledge of Violent and Suicidal Tendencies (http://www.prozactruth.com/article_internal_lily_documents.htm)

I'm not making an arument that they don't benefit some people. I am all for improving the quality of one's life. However, the manufacturer of such a product has a legal and moral obligation to inform the public of the good as well as the bad. That has not happened and the truth is finally coming out.

Please also know, that if medication is adversely affecting you, it should be obvious. If you are taking these drugs, and have been for a while, and you don't experience these things, then they don't effect you the way they effect me, so you have no need to worry.

The problem is that I told the psychiatrist that I was seeing that the meds were have a bad effect and sho told me they weren't and made me feel like something was wrong with me. She also told me I could stop taking them and that I'd be fine and guess what - I went through an awful withdrawal. That's an ill-informed M.D. who didn't advise me properly because she was either ignorant or ill-informed.

pisces2473

03-23-2004, 04:45 PM

Joe, I hope you don't think I'm attacking you. I'm not. :)

Those drug facts can be found in any drug handbook. Maybe I'm more aware because we have books like that at my house? I knew what I was getting into...however, for those who aren't well-informed, it can be dangerous.

paperjam1015

03-23-2004, 04:58 PM

I went through a similar situation with a med I was taking for another medical condition. I couldn't think clearly and it made me irritable (moreso than usual, anyway). The doctor tried to tell me I was fine and increased my dosage. I went to go see the NP. Well, I through some research at her and think my irritability scared the crap out of her and she switched my med very quickly.

Layback

03-24-2004, 09:06 AM

Jen - I don't think that you're atacking me at all. I hope that you don't feel this way either. I guess the whole reason why I am so emotionally affected by these findings is that I went through an awful period of time my freshman year of college, which I was told was a result of my feeling of guilt around experimentation. It is only now that I realize that about 80% of my problems was the medication that I was prescribed.

The last 1.5 years of my life has closely resembled those days and it was again due to medication. While it's a huge relief to know that there is nothing wrong with me, it makes me wonder how many other people have experienced/will experience the same thing. I guess that I feel compelled on some level to be an advocate of the negative effects, but I do not want to lead people away from a beneficial use of these drugs.

Currently, I am reading a book written by Peter M. Breggen, M.D., the industry expert on the harmful effects of SSRIs, who has been involved in many of the big court cases between Eli Lilly, etc., at's it's rather startling to know that Eli Lilly, Glaxo, Smith Kline, etc, have actually misled the FDA, skewed clinical research, and in one case, ignored a direct order from the FDA. That causes me huge concern.

If anyone is interested, here's a link to Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/073820451X/qid=1080137076/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-8473093-7072102?v=glance&s=books)

SunDevil

03-25-2004, 12:34 PM

I think my case is exactly what they are warning against. I had suicidal thoughts for a week prior to seeing the pyschologist for the first time. (I told her this) Then I got started on Celexa for depression & anxiety, and Ambien to regulate my sleep cycles. Let's just say the suicidal thoughts became a little bit more intense in the following week. It isn't too good giving a suicidal person 30 sleeping pills. So, after about 4 days, I had to give the Ambien back because I couldn't handle it anymore.

But the big question is if I hadn't taken the Celexa, would the suicidal thoughts deminished, stayed the same, or increased?

The FDA is thinking that taking the antidepressents gives you enough energy to actually attempt suicide. And it shouldn't matter if there is a warning on the bottle, every pyschologist/ER/911 is prepared to talk people down from commiting suicide. It is just that the patient needs to promise that they will talk to someone before getting the drugs.

Layback

03-25-2004, 01:43 PM

Suidical thoughts = "I am going to kill myself next week by hanging myself."

Suicidal ideation = "I wish that I just didn't have to wake up tomorrow." or "I wish that I could just die and go to heaven."

Two very different things. Maybe you weren't suicidal, just very depressed.

Here's what alarms me:

A study was conducted on 20 perfectly content and happy people who did not need antidepressants. These people volunteered for a study. They were all given the antidepresant, Zoloft. Within a week, three people wanted to die and one nearly acted on it. These people did not realize how the medication was affecting their attitude and behavior. Now, apply those same statistics to someone who is already depressed? I can't even begin to imagine...

This is a real story - I can give you the text right out o the book if you'd like.

pisces2473

03-25-2004, 01:51 PM

Now that is freaky. It's like, if you're depressed and suicidal, it can help...but if you're just plain old depressed and not suicidal, it can make you that way. Maybe that tells us something?

Lipgloss Boost

03-27-2004, 08:35 AM

I used to work with ppl who suffer from schizophrenia. Trust me that drugs can change & save ppl's lives, as well as those around them! Having said that, some of the "older" med's have dreadful side effects which I have also seen do permanent damage in older clients. As for Prozac, it's known for having bad results.

I struggle with anxiety & depression. Mine is situational from job (if you've been on the "Work" subForum you'll already know about all that!) & life stress. My Dr put me on St John's Wort & my God has it helped! I *refused* to go on anything not natural because of the harsh side effects.

The Forum in my sig' is for those who suffer from eating disorders, addictions, struggle with self-injury, or who have been abused or are supporting someone who has been abused. Lurk through or post if you guys would like! I actually have a whole thread called "Medications" in the "Hope" subForum. Take care.

paperjam1015

03-27-2004, 10:33 AM

LipGloss,

I have a client who was just diagnosed w/ Schizophrenia. What meds have you seen work well? I think he's on Risperdol. I have had other clients on this, but not for schizophrenia.

Layback

03-30-2004, 10:46 AM

Lipgloss Boost

03-31-2004, 10:21 AM

No, you misinterpreted me! I wasn't comparing the two illnesses, just the effects of the drugs. Also, the low-self worth from depression is a symptom, not the illness; like the hallucinations & delusions are symptoms of schizophrenia, not the illness. They are both mental illnesses, or chemical imbalances, in the brain.

There is debate over how they are brought on (heredity, brain injury, changes in hormones, severe stress, predisposition), hence why they have yet to find a cure.

How do you define "nuts"? Susan Smith & Andrea Yates both had severe depression! Their actions were not "normal"; not "normal" for those with & without a mental illness! Like with schizophrenia, extreme psychotic episodes are *rare* though. Med's, OT, good psychiatrists & outpatient programs help. Also, educated families in mental health law & mental illness to see warning signs & get their loved ones to a physician for a referral, saves lives from on-going depression or on a rare occasion, injury! Both the sufferer & the family's!

paperjam1015

03-31-2004, 10:34 PM

You guys are comparing schizophrenia, a stress-induced disease (from what I know of it), which causes neurotransmitters to misfire, resulting in hallucianations and delusions, to depression, a feeling of low self-worth and unhapiness, which can causes stress and anxiety. No one who was unhappy or anxious has ever gone nuts. However, people prescribed SSRIS have had drug-induced mania and even phsycotic episodes becasue of the SSRI. Do you see the problem with this?

WTF?

See the problem? I don't see the logic...

Seriously, I don't know where to start with a response to this.
We weren't comparing the illnesses. Both have biochemical misfirings, though the symptoms are different. Both can be assisted with meds.

As far as going nuts....I have seen ppl w/ depression and anxiety disorders "go nuts" and not b/c of the drugs.

One of the problems with your study is that the drugs WILL have a negative affect on ppl who are not depressed. Wouldn't you expect a normal person to experience negative affects if they took medication for diabetics? While I do believe that certain meds are not right for certain ppl, I don't belive that the drug companies are necessarily at fault. Or that ppl should avoid using meds. No some ppl don't need them, but some are better off with them. Some are misdiagnosed. I think that doctors need to be more educated about prescribing them adn patients need to educate themselves.
Dr's are not infallible. Drug co.s are not infallible. Poop happens. I have worked with too many success stories to say that drugs are not wrthwhile. I have also seen ppl decline while they are on meds. But who is to say they wouldn't be worse off than if they are on meds.

Once again, jsut b/c a diabetic is taking insuin, doesn't mean that it will rid them or improve their diabetes.

Lipgloss Boost

04-03-2004, 04:49 AM

PaperJam1015: Have you seen "A Beauitful Mind"? That is the best example on movies that has come out on schizophrenia! They actually used to use insulin & there's a scene from that movie where they show what it used to do to the body. I know The Schizophrenia Society uses diabetes as an example & because it's very similar in treatment to schizophrenia. Basically if you don't keep an even level of med's in the body, that's when the probems start.

*wink* Thanks for the PM replies, Guys! I actually know a bunch of good mental health boards through the board that hosts my Forum. There's some great information out there.