Behind on the "Dating Curve"

[Merlin]

Hello everyone!

I just found this site and read some of the posting and it is comforting to know that I am not the only one who feels behind on the "dating curve" as someone here called it. I've graduated from college, worked for a few years and now this year am going back to grad school and I have never had a serious relationship. I've not really even been on all that many dates. And it's not because I don't want to or I'm not interested but I've always seemed to have a hard time meeting women.

I know people from my old high school are married and have kids already and my best friend from college is married. I feel so completely behind on the dating curve. It seems like everyone I know is much better at meeting people and dating than I am. I don't think it's because I'm unattractive. I could possibly work out more to be a bit more muscular but otherwise I think I'm a rather attractive guy. I'm tall, thin, I even had one middle age woman tell me I was "movie star handsome".

I would say that I tend to fit the profile of the quiet "nice guy" type who some women don't seem to notice. (Why is it that middle age women think the "nice guys" are such a great catch, but the 20something women often fail to notice?) I'm intelligent, I'm caring, I'm ethical and honest, I'm a good listener, I'll help out anyone who needs it (within reason). One of my guy friends told me that I was the only friend he has ever had who didn't try and use him or lie about him behind his back or generally turn out to be a jerk.

You would think (living in a college town) I would not have a problem meeting women but so far I have struck out. I've gone back to grad school this year for professional reasons but I had also hoped that being back in college would help me meet people but so far not. My professional interests (mainly computer web, internet technology with a focus on educational applications) are not really full of single 20something attractive women.

The thing is, I do SEE a lot of women here on campus but there just doesn't seem to be a good way to really meet them. I not in any classes with them. I don't much like the "bar scene". I remember going to alcohol centered "frat parties" as an undergraduate and I felt completely out of place even then, and I know I would now. I've never been good at thinking up phony reasons to meet a girl in some random public place just because I think she's cute or whatever.

I will admit I'm sort of picky and that doesn't help me either. I don't want to "settle" for someone I'm not really in love with. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to her. I've been through some major "crushes" in my life and while (obviously) none worked out and I did get over them (yes, you do get over them) I know what it feels like to really want to be with someone and I don't want to settle for anything less than "that feeling".

Within the last few years I've started worrying, for the first time in my life, about my increasing age being a issue. Being in college again I'm actually close to 10 years older than some of the women here I might possibly meet and though I generally look at least a good five years younger than I am, I've started to dread the "So how old are you?" question.

Like most singles I've at least browsed the on-line personals. Here and there you see ads that say "No one over 30!" or "No one over 35!" and I see that and I get really depressed because I know the clock is ticking for me and I can't do anything to stop it. I dread being one of those 40+ year old lonely guys whose only socially acceptable dating options are 35 to 40+ year old women who are either divorced, have kids already, are at the end of their child bearing years or are just not attractive to me.

It's hard not to get depressed despite other things in my life going generally very well. My job/career/education seems to be moving along, I have a stable, loving supportive family. But if you don't have someone special to love you, in the end, what's it all for?


Just wondering if anyone else is going through the same things I am?


Merlin

[Unregistered]

Hi Merlin,

I'm sitting here with my friend reading your post and can't help thinking -- "gee, we could've written that". We hear you!

We women are plauged by similar issues, so know that your are not alone, nor are your problems limited to your sex.

There are some people that have what we have termed the "vibe factor." No matter how many great qualities you possess, it seems that there is always someone else that has that "something" everyone is attracted to --- like a moth to a flame. While you remain in the dark.

Any single people out there, sick of people telling you, "Oh, it will come - enjoy being single!"? Which is so easy for them to say, seeing as they're in a relationship, and you're the last dog in the window that nobody wants to buy.

Hope fate will cross your path one day...

Good luck,
A&N

[tonesofhome]

You're not the only one behind the dating curve. I have taken a solid year off from my "man hunt" . I go to bars and coffee houses and observe but.... I have really enjoyed this past year of only worrying about myself. I have been able to concentrate on becoming a better person. I work out 5x a week, I have one class left to finish my master's, and I am going out and having fun.

Then I come home and get in bed and feel lonely. I miss having that special someone to share my day with, to hold, to be held by. My area does not have much to offer and I feel that I am too old for the local college guys. This may not be the case but looking at them I wonder what I have to offer them.

When I was younger my plan was to go to college, graduate engaged, get married after settling somewhere and finding a job. Then I graduated, broke up with my boyfriend, and hung out with the girls. Who needs a plan? When the time is right he will come along.

[Antonina]

Just reading your posts and wanting to share that I always felt the way you guys did, right up until about 8 months ago (I am 25). I was always one of those girls who was reasonably nice, friendly, reasonable-looking, and was always stuck in one-way infatuations. I was always wondering how everyone else used to manage to find boyfriends- it just felt futile, and I really couldn't sort it out. And you know how people often say that it'll happen when you least expect it? Well I used to get mad at that too- but it actually did end up happening that way. I went on a mini backbacking holiday and was lucky enough to run smack-bang into a guy who has turned out to be the stuff my dreams are of. And this happened to me, someone who's had no real relationship history to speak of, and has never had much luck dating!

So there you go. We're just late bloomers. You've heard it to death before, I am sure, but I'll say it again (from personal experience)- one day it will all just drop into your lap and you'll wonder why you'd ever even worried about it. Really!

[Unregistered]

Reading all of your posts I can definitely relate.

I am 24 and have been out of college for almost a year. I had a girlfriend of 2.5 years until about 3 months ago. I thought she was "the one", and I thought the feeling was mutual. Then I got blindsided and she broke up with me because she said she was "too young, confused, etc." She said I treated her like a princess and she will probably regret breaking up, she just wasn't sure about anything. And, other than her, I had never really had any luck with dating women, so I can relate to the dilemas on this thread.

So, what have I done.

Well, I got back into working out. It really boosts your self confidence and makes you feel better. I am also taking kickboxing which is fun and a good way to meet some new people. Then I also got involved with some community service stuff to help some less fortunate people.

I am keeping myself busy enough that I am ususally too busy to worry about not having someone. And, instead of looking for "Miss Right", I focus on being "Mr Right". I have a good job, do anything for my friends, and try to help others....I think those are all positive qualities.

I think some things in life are beyond our control, such as "finding" the perfect girlfriend or boyfriend. Just work on making the most of each day, because we can't get this time back. And, focus on being the best person you can. That way, whether or not you find someone, you can look back with no regrets. And if you do find someone, you will be special to them.

Just my thoughts...anyone else have any opinions?

[tonesofhome]

Unregistered,
I think you are doing the right thing. The same thing happened to me. I was living with my boyfriend for 2 years. My sister was in a life threatening car accident so I was traveling an hour one way 3x a week to see her. I come home one night and I find out he is getting married, to someone else!
Anyways, I relocated and am concentrating on myself. Until just recently I could not make myself happy so I certainly could not make someone else happy.
Being selfish and worrying about me has allowed me to become more self confident, aware, and fun. Something good usually comes out of something bad. My sister is at about 85% of what she was (a miracle!) and my family is a lot closer now.

[erikalink]

I can totally relate to everyone here! I am 24 and my boyfriend of almost 3 years broke up with me about 6 months ago. I am totally over him and thank God that I am not with him anymore, but my dating life has not been as fulfilling as I would like. I've been on a few dates with some great guys, but they are just not my type. I am also having problems meeting people. I work in downtown San Diego and have a few single friends, but not enough to go out and do the "single" thing every weekend. I consider myself to be an attractive, nice, successful and fun girl and I guess I'm just looking for a guy that has his head on straight. Unfortunately, (so far) none to be found. You would think working downtown and being in San Diego, you'd find an attractive, successful and smart guy............maybe I'm just thinking about it too much and need to let fate drive my life for a while?!

[Bag Lady]

Well Merlin...You are definitely not alone.

I've had this exact conversation with one of my single friends many times. I've decided to just not worry about it. I've got a great family and good friends. Actually, sometimes I feel like I'm better off being single...I know it sounds strange...but I know many people my age (25) that have already been married and divorced. One of my dearest friends is going through a divorce right now, and another is "dating" a guy who is married. I look at how upset and complicated their lives are - it's crazy.
There are definitely worse things than being single.

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to have someone special, and I often wonder why I don't. ( I like to think God is saving Hugh Grant for me or Pierce Brosnan, or Tiger Woods, or....:D )

I've been working out again too. I'm addicted to spinning.
I also am taking an oil painting class.
Stuff like that gets you out of the house and you can meet some really cool people - it just takes some time.

Hang in there!!!

[Merlin]

Hey A&N (whoever you are)

I can totally relate to the "vibe factor" thing. I think I'll start using that! It seems like some people can be complete jerks but if they have the "vibe" they can get members of the opposite sex to want them, and give them endless chances to shape up. On the other hand, just being a nice guy often leaves you headed for the "good friend" category. I could give you examples from my life.

What I've more or less concluded is that being a really nice person and having lots of positive qualities DOES help you once you are IN a relationship, but apparently has little to do with triggering that initial infatuation that gets someone to see you "that way" to begin with. Getting on the "potential boyfriend track" as opposed to the "friendship track" apparently has to do with other things.

And yes I am really tired of being told "It will come -- be patient, blah, blah…" That's so easy for them to say.

Here is a question for you and all the female readers:

What is it about a guy that makes you see him as "boyfriend potential" and not just "friendship potential"?

Here is hoping fate will cross all our paths…

Merlin

[sunbear]

Hi Merlin,
I read your questions and I think I might have an answer for that. :0)
Just remember, nice isn't everything.
So why are we attracted to jerks? We can be greedy, the looks- the wheels- etc... but the difference I've noticed, even if guys don't have "much" is the confidence factor. Confidence isn't egotistic, but I'm talking about a healthy dose of self esteem.
I love it when a guy is confident enough in himself to even touch a feminine side openly(esp. if he isn't gay). Straight guys that love Tori Amos? A guy with pretty eyes who will wear eyeliner just to amuse people? Even better, a guy who prides himself on knowing what happens when a girl has an ovarian cyst that busted, and not look ill about it. That's the great mystery about guys, they can belch, take pics of themselfs barfing, cutting open a fish, and engrossing themselves in the grossest manner and enjoy it. But when it comes to a girls reproductive things- they're soo grossed out. Can any guy explain that one?
The ability to have fun, good energy, intellegence, and someone who takes care of himself is always a good sign.
And the most important- guys who we can feel good about ourselves around. It's too easy to confuse these guys with jerks.
I hope that gives you some sort of idea.

[Antonina]

hi Merlin,

I'm completely in with sunbear on the confidence factor. It makes ALL the difference. Confident and assured, good manners and not afraid to let girls know that they are interested (subtly though, not barbarian style! ;) ) if they are. It's a cliche, but we want someone who is at least equal, not someone we feel is shy and will need us to look after! Snappy dressing can help too (nothing flashy, NO suits!, you just need to look comfortable but not dumpy). Am I making any sense? (hope so but I realise it's a bit waffly!)

A.

[tonesofhome]

Merlin,
For me the difference between friend and boyfriend is the physical attraction. About 85% of my friends are guys, which stinks sometimes. There are two of these friends that I had potential with. One is so nice and considerate and has a great job. But I am just not attracted to him. When he told me he like me more than friend I tried to make myself be attracted to him. Honetly, he was to good of a guy to pass up but you need the physical. The second guy I was somewhat attracted to but the more I got to know him the more I could see he had no self esteem. As stated before, confidence and self esteem are very important.

[Undercover]

Awwww, the raging debate of "nice guys vs. jerks." The nature of being a "nice guy", however, is commonly misunderstood. It is believed that being polite, considerate, friendly, tender, romantic, etc. is what being a "nice guy" is all about and thus those qualities should be avoided, as it is the "jerk", the rude, the inconsiderate, the impolite, the rough guy who always gets the girl while the "nice guy" is waiting outside in the pouring rain with flowers in his hand.

It doesn't mean that women prefer rude over polite, inconsiderate over considerate, etc. It all becomes clear when we look at a very important issue often overlooked when trying to define what makes the "jerks" beat the "nice guys" when it comes to getting the girls. It is sexuality, confidence and the challenge. The so-called "jerks" are not afraid to show that they are sexual beings, they have lots of self confidence, and yes, the challenge… you ladies love a good challenge of getting your man and the “jerks” provide that challenge. The "nice guys" hide their sexuality as a part of their agenda of being friendly, polite, and courteous towards women. The so-called "nice guy" is generally not a smooth-talker. He does not come-on like he’s fun, adventerous or mysterious, and generally not extremely outspoken. But, then again, to say "JERK" is not a truly accurate description of the type of men women go after. I speak from experience. I am a nice guy with jerk qualities. Have a nice day!

Merlin, my advice to you is to continue being the nice guy that you are, but incorporate being cool/confident and cocky/funny into your repertoire when you're conversing with the ladies. :D

[Phoenix]

For me to look at a person as a boyfriend rather than a friend (and keep in mind this is from the perspective of having known the person some - not having a total stranger walk up to me), I usually have to be able to see us together (short term or long term). Part of it is the physical attraction but it is also how I think it will work out between us.

Meaning, I look at how he treats other people around him (in addition to how he treats me), look for a sense of humor, someone who likes to have fun but has a serious side as well, someone who's caring (kinda goes back to whether he's going to be there through thick and thin...can handle something serious - whether it be a crisis that has arisen during the course of dating or a previously existing problem - and not be scared away), and someone who is actually interested in YOU and what goes on in your life (someone who pays attention to something you had going on Tuesday and then asks you about it later that day or week).

Another thing I like to look at is where we both are in life. For example: If I was in college and about to graduate, I probably wouldn't go out w/ someone who was an undergrad student and still into the party scene. B/c I would be looking for a job and struggling to adjust to the real world. Maybe not the best of examples, but that sort of thing...you know, someone that you can relate to.

Of course, some of these items fall into the friend zone. Because I think women do look for a guy who will be a friend and not JUST a boyfriend. But I look at it this way: if my guy friend/acquaintance was to bail on me constantly or if i've seen how he treats people and it isn't good (either friend or girls from previous relationships that he's had), I definitely won't even think of him as being in the more than a friend zone.

[Unregistered]

For Merlin - don't get too discouraged! I know that is easy to say and hard to follow.

It took me a long-time to find a good, serious relationship with a guy. I was the academic overachiever in high school and never dated. I went full-steam ahead to college and got my bachelor's degree, worked a few years, then got my master's degree.

But, something was missing. Some dating, but no real relationships. I decided to just focus on some other goals in my life for a while and worry about dating.

Then, at work one day, this really nice guy asked me out. I had noticed him at work but didn't pay too much attention because he was kind of quiet and shy. He took a chance (he later told me that he was very, very nervous) and asked me out for a date. We went out and really hit it off. He is the kind of person who really opens up once he gets to know someone.

Anyway, it turns out that he was older than me, by more than a few years. I didn't realize it at the time because he looks younger. I was 26 when we started dating. He was 37 but I thought that he was maybe 31 or 32.

In the end, we got married and have been married for almost two years now.

So, I found a great guy when I wasn't looking and he turned out to be worth the wait!

Take care, all.

[Merlin]

Hi again everyone,

Thanks for all the advice.

I realized something new yesterday. I was looking though the Yahoo personals and I decided to email this one gal who caught my eye. It doesn't happen often, and who knows if she will even write back, but she seemed very sweet and pretty and she wasn't that far away so, I thought, why not. The thing is, I didn't have any of my usual shyness around women about doing it. I think a big reason for that is because I knew she was interested in being approached.

One of the biggest problems I have in dating, in addition to the standard "how do I meet people" problem is not knowing if someone is single and interested in being approached. I've always found that really awkward. It isn't so much that I'm afraid of being turned down, it's more that I'm afraid of offending someone who was not asking to be approached in a sexual way.

I can write a nice email to someone on one of these on-line personals and not feel weird about it at all. If she's not interested that's ok, move on. But by being there she is announcing that she's single and available and it’s ok to approach her. Translating that into your day to day life where you meet people I have found very hard and even if I do meet someone, I tend to be a bit shy about making a "move", without knowing if a she is interested in being approached at all.

Has anyone else, guys or gals, had this problem?

For the gals, what is the best way for a guy to approach a girl sexually without risking offending her? How is the best way to find out if someone is interested in being approached?

Merlin

[Unregistered]

Hi I am kind of new to this, but I feel compelled to write my thoughts down. My question is why do girls and guys break up w/ their significant other and date losers? We always want that drama in our lives and just can't stay happy w/ what we've got. This is myself included. I was dating a guy for yrs and it's been a rough relationship. I just recently broke up w/ him with the explanation that I was too young for this serious relationship (I am 24) and I wanted to see what else was out there. Now that he's gone, I wonder if that was such a good idea. He was such an amazing guy. A little possesive and overbearing, but overall, I have never been w/ a man like him. He was 110% devoted to me and to us. I don't know what's wrong with me. I love him to death but I don't know what to do anymore. I sort of want to date other people, but at the same time I miss him so much. Am I making a mistake? What if later on in the future I decide I do want to be with him, but he doesn't want to be with me? What do I do? I won't reveal his name, but his initials are D.L. Sweetie if you ever read this, know that I love you more than anything and that I am sorry for putting you through this. I just hope that in the end it works out for us.

[Unregistered]

Unregistered,

I am in a situation somewhat like yours. Except I am on the other side. My girlfriend broke up with me after being together for a couple years. She told me when she broke up she was confused (she is 22), too young, etc. But, she also said that I treated her like gold (I would have done anything for her), she still cares for me, and she will probably regret breaking up with me down the road. It was a first "real" relationship for both of us.

I know now that she is seeing another guy. I know the guy and, who knows, maybe it is a rebound relationship. I don't think he is that great. He has a DUI, a degree that won't get him too far, etc. He just isn't very great. But, they seem happy for now.

Anyway, her and I still keep in touch occasionally. She is actually moving to the same city as me in a couple weeks. It is tough on me though because she is with a new guy and I try to keep my distance and get on with my own life. I am trying to meet new people to date and do new activities, it really takes some adjustment.

Anyway, as far as getting back together, I don't know. Every situation is different. I do think if it ever happened we would definitlely start from square one. And, she would have to earn my trust back. I went through a lot of pain getting over her. Especially when I got dumped for no real reason. But, I guess time will tell. For now, I just live my life. I try to enjoy every day!

Good luck with your situation.

[Unregistered]

OK, I read all the messages, and some of them include some trace of reality. Unfortunately, the ones written by females are quite far from reality--but I think they were sincere in writing them. I'll try to make my point in a small list. I believe these very firmly, and I will be making generalizations--certainly there are exceptions albeit very few.

1. To ask girls what kind of guy they like or how they want to be approached does not make so much sense because girls in general do not know what they want. For instance, when asked if they want to date a "nice guy" or a guy who treats women badly or harshly, almost all of them will say "Oh, definitely the nice guy!!" But as we all know, nice guys finish last.

2. The same women, interestingly, worship football players in America, or rugby players in France, or wife-beaters in most Middle Eastern countries--I lived in all those places enough to make this observation. This means that they love and want tough guys. The main reason for this can be explained by the theory of evolution. Just watching one episode of a documentary about breeding on Discovery Channel will make things very clear. Females always want to have the genes of the strong male who is more capable of generating stronger offspring.

3. In addition, women are attracted to guys who are or have been with many women. The reason for this also can be explained by the theory of evolution. Since such males' genes have high chance of survival, females want their sperms. Examples from real life: quarterbacks in North America date many women, and certainly get the most attractive ones in high school and in college. Obviously, there are always a lot of girls around quarterbacks.

4. Having spoken of quarterbacks, leadership is also very important. Why do many politicians who are not good looking at all have many relationships with beautiful women? Because they are close to being a leader and they have power. With whom do female lions mate? The leader in the group or the ones that are subordinate to the leader?

5. Playing hard-to-get helps women, but seeming like you are not desperate is EXTREMELY important to secure your place in a potential relationship. As soon as a woman understands that her male's level of interest in her is higher than her level of interest in him, the bond between them becomes history. Then males start hearing things like "I'm confused", "I think we have to give a little break", or "I need some room to breathe." Actually, at this stage, it is already too late for the male to save the relationship. These are signs that the female will end the relationship; however, very few males are aware of this fact.

6. Being devoted to your girlfriend is not a virtue in your girlfriend's eyes--WHATEVER she tells you, this is the truth. Being loyal can be important only when the girl is seriously considering you as a potential husband. But even this rarely happens. And especially "being devoted" is a total turnoff for women.

7. In most cases, it is the woman who ends the affair. And there is a universal rule here: before ending the affair, the woman always makes sure that she will start another relationship with another man (if she has not already done so). For this reason, when the woman gives the signs that she has no interest any more, she looks for future mates. In general, she considers many (up to 5 or more) candidates, and makes a move to start something with a few of them. Finally, she chooses one--without the current boyfriend ever knowing the existence of the other man--and ends her current relationship. This rule is the same for all girls all over the world.

I tried to clarify some things, because the things we see in movies is not even close to what happens in real life, and people can believe what they see in motion pictures.

[tonesofhome]

Unregistered,
I do not think that it is fair and I am offended that you would make such a bold generalization. I have ended every relationship because of the following:
1. The one quarter back I dated hit me ONCE.
2. The other five boyfriends all cheated on me.
So in reality, my boyfriends really ended the relationship.
None of these boyfriends were alike. One was an artist who used to openly cry at sad movies. One was five inches shorter than me. Another was a shy computer nerd with about 4 friends.
I am the jock. I play sports and have a job in which I hold power and make a lot of money.
I want a man to be intelligent, sensitive, artistic, funny, and family oriented, not some beef eater. But thanks for trying to stereotype.

[CAT11]

Just to through my two cents in...I also don't agree with everything UR said, but WeirdBlake had a good clarification. We all feel cynical at times, especially about something as confusing as dating. I would also like to add that girls have many of the same but slightly different feelings about guys. The reason that we have these examples that make people so jaded is that someone actually behaved in these manners. Enough said.

Anyway, I would like to comment the grass is always greener on the otherside and that time is never perfect. I am dating a great guy. We have been together 1.5 years. I would like to get married, since our logistics seem to be a problem (as far as how far we live, etc.) but have decided to wait for a certain age and until some goals have been explored. But that is another post.

Anyway, I want to share how this guy and I met. Nice guys, listen up! He is a computer "nerd", works with all men, moved to my town from across the country. Not a big social life there. Took a night class in photography, which happened to be another interest of his, and was my major, at the local cc. Whala? Not quite. I thought he was concieted. Turns out, he was just shy. He kept asking me out for coffee. I got to the point where I looked forward to class so I could see him.

Moral of the story. The girls you want to meet probably aren't out clubbing on Friday night. Look in less obvious places. I wouldn't hesitate to reply to a personal ad. Most of them are nice people in the same situation.

One more comment on how to approach women. Read the body language. If she looks like a nice, sweet girl, she probably isn't going to be impressed by a cheesy line, or one that makes her feel trashy. Comment on the art she is sitting by. Ask her about her car/her dog....whatever is apropriate for what you are doing at the moment. If you have to get her attention but can't (she won't look at you, is with a bunch of friends, you might have to do something outrageous). Think of how you would want to be approached.

[optimistic]

The music I listen to varies like my moods :D
I'll admit to you all that I'm a hopeless romantic so I'm always listening to Delilah from 7 to midnight. Have you ever heard any of the stories told on her show? Some are sad while others are inspirational. I enjoy soft music when I'm just hanging out.
Kenny G with candles burning while I'm soaking in a hot bubble bath (while the roommates aren't home of course)
I'm also a Country Girl - love my Tim McGraw (envy Faith Hill if you know what I mean :p ) Kenny Chesney, Leanne Womack, Tricia Yearwood (not a Garth Brooks fan though)#1 Dixie Chics (love to sing them at Karoke..."cowboy take me away" for wishful thinking and "wide open spaces" my theme song)...I wasn't always a Country fan. It was my first day of College when I knew I was doomed, I walked into my dorm room and the first thing I saw was a life size cardboard poster of Allen Jackson(back then I didn't know who he was) hanging over the bunk beds. You should have seen how my Brad Pitt poster looked right next to him :p
When I was a bit younger and into the clubs I'd listen to techno music - how can anyone sit still for that? R+B and hip hop sometimes. What is it with Boston it's all that's being played? Not that I mind but sometimes I want to scream (if it wasn't for Ramiro and Pebbles in the am I wouldn't have 94.5 programed...shhh)
I absolutely love 80's tunes....."She Bop, He Bop and We Bop, I Bop, You Bop and They Bop" - we all Bop for Cyndi Lauper. Right? or do i stand alone with this one? "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" How about Madonna? so many more...
Big Hair Bands....Listening to Motley Crue brings me back to my first love (i don't listen to if often that @#$^%) Anyway, MC is classic, Poison, Striper, Warrant, White Lion, Skid Row "18 and life" and "is it all just wasted time" (also reminds me of the X) Tesla. When I'm really feeling like letting it all out I even listed to Pantera or Metallica. I blame my X for most of my rage stage but thank him for so many memories(he's still a !@#$) =0)
Being Italian I've grown up on Dean Martin "Hey brother pour the wine" Frank Sinatra Who doesn't like Frankie? "I did it my way" My Dad's theme song, may he rest in peace XOXO.
Blues rule! BB King is all you need. A little Fats Domino maybe.
Are there any Tull Fans out there? Jethro Tull...
I used to listen to Ani, someone stole my CD, what's the name of some?
If I forgot to mention that I also listen to Air Supply - they were my first concert. FREE!
You must be bored with me already. I have so many more but not enough time. It was nice to read what others like, I jotted a few new artists down so I can buy the CD and check'em out. Bye

[Unregistered]

I think optimistic posted this one in the wrong area, but that's ok. :) I liked that other thread about music too.

Anyway, to comment on Unregistered's tyrade and maybe what Weirdbrake said as well. Yes, Unregistered seems intelligent and articulate - and SOME of what was said may apply. However, a lot of what was said was just plain unjustified and off base (at least for this girl). Personally, I don't want some macho man football player or a man who plays the tough guy. Nor do I want a "he-whore." Why would I want someone who is interested in sleeping around and who doesn't value his body except to use it for getting a piece of @$$. I also value honesty and loyalty and if I know a relationship is coming to an end, I don't go looking to see who else I can hook up with before I finish dealing w/ emotions and difficulties from my current relationship.

Also, one comment on this one from Weirdbrake:
"how Unregistered would answer some of the things you said in your post, Tonesofhome, I can picture him raising the following points: Your assertion that you want a guy who is "sensitive" and "family oriented" appears to be at odds with the fact that six guys in the past made it to 'boyfriend level' with you, even though they were neither sensitive nor family oriented (unless physical abuse and infidelity are sensitive and family oriented qualities). Unregistered might further take this as evidence for his assertion that "women don't really know what they want" or that "women say they want a certain thing but don't." "

Well let me raise this issue to you...(and not to attack but to point this out and play devil's advocate as well...:) ) Do you always know that a man/woman will cheat on you ahead of time when you enter into a relationship? The answer to that is No. I've been cheated on before by a guy who seemed to be nothing but interested in having a committed relationship (he initiated it). Would I have guessed that a month and a half into it he would cheat on me? No. And not b/c I didn't want to see or believe it. And I definitely know what I didn't want going into a relationship -- and that was a cheater. He alone was confused and didn't know what he wanted. He thought he wanted a committed relationship but couldn't handle it. It goes both ways.

You always hope for the best but no one can be a mind reader and predict what someone is really like on the inside... that's what dating is for. To get to know the person. Granted, there are people that you get an inkling about before dating them (whether from observations of how they treat you, treat others, or things that you've heard from reliable sources) but that isn't always the case.

[sunbear]

UR, you wrote

"Unfortunately, the ones written by females are quite far from reality--but I think they were sincere in writing them."
I stand by my post. By the way, I believe you make women a little more complicated than need be by generalizing us, please don't take offense- we've all had our share of sour times.
That's the whole thing I don't understand about men- esp. with the current relationship I'm in or in general. I work with men, I have to listen to them- I have to put up with flirting, comments, tactics- etc.
And the thing is, yes the "'nice' girls don't go to clubs/bars"... but sometimes we would love to go out and socialize with a drink or two.
Do guys out there realize that women love being a valued person? (not just for sex ) And sometimes guys will be annoyingly persistant, blatent to the point of being rude, grope, pushy, or even manipulative sometimes. When a girl says "no", she means no-rejection by a woman in a bar/club scene should NEVER be taken personally. Sometimes I feel as if guys want women for company, etc. but don't seem eager to follow through for us. Maybe it's the alcohol factor in the bars that keep us from having much common sense, but I also think there's a factor in some sort of unwritten code of the boys club that allows them to anyways.
But I've heard this one works really well for men, just walk up to a woman and introduce yourself. "Hi, I'm so &so", being as comfortable, unassuming, and casual as you can be with NO EXPECTATIONS- usually can get a woman to talk to you, more than once even.
Women have gotten the message that "being prime- or the most beautiful" is the way to be. Men usually egg this message on. Have you seen these things like Maxim magazine? I've seen a girl at work get so many favors that helped her advance FAST- the guys loved her for her "cute figure"- I mean really big b**bs.
You've read articles that women will flaunt their beauty in order to get what they want. My favorite experience is going out to a bar one night with a friend who is extremely attractive, I'm petite- however a bunch of guys (big dorks as well) RAN OVER ME just so they could talk to her. It sounds funny, buy it wasn't fun being shoved around like that. Also, try having a boyfriend who thinks it's ok to gauk at a cute girl made up while you're tired from work and looking less than spectacular. Or going out that way and having him blow you off to talk to a dressed up "friend" of his he just happened to forget to introduce you to.
Someone has also posted somewhere that women dodge guys quickly. Men don't have to go through the feeling women do- to a women, if a woman doesn't talk back, look, drink, put on a show, flirt, put out- then he's going to reject her. And her safety IS at risk. If the woman biologically looks for security and safety in her mate- either he provides it or she will look for it elsewhere, sometimes will look for it in a powerful or physically attractive person. I can't speak for all women, and I'm sorry if I generalized or offended anyone. These are the messages I've been sent about men- but just TRY to put yourselves in our shoes.
I think I'm going to go and get myself a puppy. :o

[Unregistered]

I totally agree with a lot of what Sunbear said, commenting on the "other" UR's comments. If UR really feels this way, sorry to say, but he probably deserves to be alone,because he has no clue. I don't say this with malice, but I can see someone like that expecting to get a Heidi Klum lookalike with a Mother Teresa personality, doesn't work that way. Case in point, all last summer, a guy in my social circle who was 5'3'' (yes, 5'3'') was very into me, however, being that I don't like short men, I was literally chastised by his friends as superficial. HOwever, I do consider myself to be very attractive, but I KNOW that if I was 300 lbs, this so called "nice guy" wouldn't have given me a second look, opened doors for me, let me in the door first, etc. Point: attraction is individual, so try to be friends with a woman, no strings, and then get back to the board with your observations.

[Unregistered]

Hey...I'm "the other Unregistered" who posted a message here a while ago--the list with seven items that received some negative feedback from mainly females. I still firmly believe in what I maintained in that list, and I wanted to make a few clarifications.

One of the respondents asks why she would date a man who cheats. If you go back to my message and read it again, you will see that I did not say women wanted to be with cheaters. What I said--and which is a proved biological truth--is that women prefer males who have many females around. These males are not necessarily cheaters, although some of them may be. This is so true that I request anyone who does not believe what I say make some observations the next time he or she goes to a bar or a wedding. The cause of this is completely an instinct, which is the desire to have offspring that have the chance to survive. Since females have a certain number of eggs and can give birth a limited number of times in a lifetime, they have to choose the best males--best can be the strongest for lions, the one with beautiful colors for some birds, the one who has a secure financial future for human beings. It is not possible to change reality by denying it.

I have not said that women do not consider character, integrity, humor, etc. They do, because we are not animals (or we are the most intelligent ones). Let us all not forget that the ability to pick the best sperm available is one of the main reasons why human beings no more look like chimpanzees. That is the backbone of our evolution.

It is also another biological fact that males want to be with many females. This is because, unlike females, males can produce hundreds of millions of sperms a day, and they want to mate as many females as they can. That is why most women complain about their partners' cheating on them. As a male, I am also not disregarding this fact. But these facts are not bad things in and of themselves. They happen to still exist because they were attributes leading to stronger offspring throughout the years. Actually, there is a cycle: males want to mate many females, those males who do this have higher chance of gene survival, and females prefer males with higher chance of gene survival. There are a few other things said about my list that I would object, but there is no point in writing an essay on this issue.

What I have been trying to say are basic, and I mean basic, facts of evolution. I respect people who argue otherwise and their thoughts, but I am sorry to say that to argue otherwise is lost cause.

[squirmy]

Just to chip in to the original post. . .

I am SO far behind on the dating curve that it's pathetic. Never had a serious relationship in my life. Never even went on too many casual dates, either.

I doubt it's because of physical appearances (average height, slightly under average weight, and people say they think I'm good looking). It may be because like Merlin, I'm also picky, even though I'm not too sure what I'm looking for in the opposite sex.

And maybe, just maybe (but don't hold me to this because I'm not sure), I never really learned how to take risks, so I don't know how to get out there. Okay, so now it's out, I live under a rock!

[angel21]

I have been out of school for over a year, I have been working for a small company for a few months and it is hard for me to meet new people. I live in surburbs which equals not alot to do, also I do not have alot of close friends in the area, all of my close friends were at college now they are all over. It is just hard, I do not know where to begin:confused:

[Unregistered]

just one thing to the 'biological' fact other 'unregistered': 1st do you really believe everything science says? 2) are you a biologist yourself? 3)who brought up these 'facts' - men or women? 4) well, if you have too many sperms, you don't need to cheat, i mean you could masturbate, there's nothing wrong with it and it sure will bring you pleasure!

i actually think all these 'biological facts' are just an excution for things that go wrong somewhere. i mean, if someone who is in a relationship has one affair (or one night stand) after the other, something is wrong in this relationship, it is not biology. there is something more than sexual drive behind it, there is also something emotional connected with it. and you can absolutely not say that the male sexual drive is so strong that you cannot do anything against it - or was it not men who said 'humankind is the only animaly with free will'?

[Unregistered]

another word to the first, original 'unregistered' with his seven points: you're constantly speaking about 'the reality', the 'truth'... universal truth - come on, i mean you're proposing that you're the only person in the world who can see those things how the 'really' are. and of course, all women in your eyes, as they don't know what they want, will never be able to get a bit of your unique insight - who do you think you are? do you not question yourself? do you not know that all the things you percieve as the 'reality' are only your own observations? and even if others seem to had the same experiences: it's just that what they tell you is not exactly the same the have actually experienced; and you percieve it as the same experience you had just because you want it to be like that. never thought that there is no one 'reality'. here you are with your typical male schoolmaster behaviour - (and this is a fact, as linguistical surveys have shown that men often feel they have to give lectures on things) - you're telling us : oh these women don't know what they want to say, but sure they were sincere about trying.... well THANK YOU, we wouldn't have seen the real truth without your help !!
it can't be about : how women are/hiow men are --> it is about how the individual perceives the 'other'

[Unregistered]

i say war on all men! they clearly suck the most.

[squirmy]

Well said, Weirdbrake, well said. :)

"War on all men! they clearly suck the most."

Call this gross oversimplification, but with an attitude like that, it's no wonder you'll be left behind on the dating curve. Sorry to break it to you.

[squirmy]

Thanks, man. I try. :)

You've got quite an imagination yourself there, WB. ;)

[squirmy]

I meant that in a good way. Sorry! :(

[Unregistered]

another thing to the gender war: did it ever stop on these pages?

anyway i more and more get the impression that some people are in here who really just want to make fun out QLC!

[Unregistered]

they should be making fun of your grammar!

[squirmy]

Hmm, now I really am starting to wonder if all these Unregistereds are the same. :confused:

[aldwin26]

Hmm, Let me think. Who are you "Unregistered"? If you don't want to be a part of all these, I really suggest that you leave the site alone and take your frustrations over men somehwere else or just keep it yourself.

[manicmonkie]

I have to agree with weirdbrake. The posts aren't for bashing, they're for helpful comments and insights so that we can all get through this quarterlifecrisis stuff as strongly as possible.

[abby]

thank you, gatekeepers of qlc.com! so nice to know the site is being defended when i'm not watching. i can't emphasize enough that these boards are intended purely to help people by providing a community where we can share and learn that we're not alone. i allow people to post anonymously b/c i know it's hard for some to open up about their problems. this little quarrel was fairly amusing but as most of you know if it gets out of hand - to the point where insults are made- i will erase the post.

thanks to all of you who provide such prompt, thoughtful responses to fellow qlc'ers - it's great to see, you're really helping each other. as always i welcome site feedback/suggestions.

--abby

[squirmy]

. . . and squirmy is left to undisturbed contentment in the magical world of QLC. :D

[fairy710]

can i just ask the men out there something. do you all really think that women are the ones who mostly end relationships? because all my life with the men i've dated, i've always been the one to get my heart broken. i find myself pretty helpless and always wondering when the guy will tire of me and want to move on. all my relationsiphs are very fragile for this reason, and i find it very hard to trust anyone. i get scared to even start liking guys for fear of when they will leave or stop calling. :cry:

[manicmonkie]

That seems to be true. Most guys at the early stages don't want relationships as much as girls do. I for one am a strange case. I want a relationship, but the girls (all two) I have been with dumped me instead of the other way around. I think it partly has to do with maturity and how secure the person is in him or herself.

[michelle]

I have another question that I don't think anyone has raised yet. So many people say that women don't know what they want. Ok, for me, that's true. I believe that when I see it, I'll know I want it and every person I date gets me closer to the right person (the cynicism is slipping a little again). Here's the question: Do men know what they want? I don't think it's wrong that we don't have a set idea of what we want. If we all knew exactly what we wanted, what's to guarantee that we would take a chance with those that are different from what we picture as "perfect"?

Manic - most of my guy friends are in the same place you are. They keep saying that they want to date a "nice girl" and have someone to hang out with to watch movies. When they get that person, they run the other way. Women do the same thing. Just wanted to let you know that I know others who are in the same place as you :p

One more question: What's wrong with girls who go out to bars and clubs? I'm not a man-hunter, but I love going out with my friends to dance and drink. If I find a man to dance with when I'm there (and he's not all hands or falling down drunk), then that just adds a bonus onto the night :) It's not necessary though. Guys, if you meet a girl at a bar or club (and girls could pay attention to this too) try to listen to your initial feelings about her. Assuming the alcohol isn't talking for you, you could miss out on something good.

[LittleLady23]

Hi Michelle!

Some of the answers to "What do guys want" is in my post actually titled that!

It may help. It just confused me more! haha:googly:

[M4A1]

We want some ribs! .... or at least I wanna... Hmmm..... ribs

[manicmonkie]

I know what I want. I feel strange being only 22 in 2 weeks and knowing what i want. I just want undying love and respect. Differences of opinion aren't bad, as long as they aren't big issues such as children or monogamy :) A girl that could show me a different side to life and some different issues would be great. Giving life a new spin would be great. Learning something from her while teaching her at the same time seems fun. Knowing a person better than you know yourself or she knows of herself would make me tremendously happy. And, saying sweetie to a girl and having her blush and smile at me would be the ultimate. So, that's what I want. I'm willing to wait since I am too young to have it yet. I also am the one who is willing to make it work since I have more maturity than the girls I have dated so far. I was also a couple years older than them. I am not a runner, I am all for commitment and when I find the one, I'll be content. Sure there will be other challenges in life, but that bond with a girl will make it all the easier to deal with. ;):

[pisces2473]

What a great post, Manic :) Someday, you will make a girl feel very special.

Of course, we all have to keep an optimistic viewpoint about dating/relationships, even though it's really hard! Somedays you just want to move to a desert island or a mountaintop and herd some goats, lol.

Then I think of the Simon and Garfunkel song, "I am a Rock"--"I am a rock, I am an island...and a rock feels no pain and an island never cries..."

[manicmonkie]

Thank you Pisces, I will continue hoping that it comes true.

[daphne]

I think some of our trouble with finding meaningful relationships is that a lot more people
than will admit it just want someone for dates/ arm candy, perhaps sex and a bit of cuddling but aren't really ready to make an emotional investment in another person. Perhaps some reasons:

a. Too busy with work/ school/ other obligations.
Nothing wrong with focusing on these things, but you have to accept your choices. If you spend 12-15 hour days concentrating on other things, you can't blame the potential significant other for feeling neglected/ not adjusting to your schedule.

b. Doesn't really enjoy spending time with members of the opposite sex/ rigid gender roles.
Thinks guys should only like sports or action-films / thinks women should only like shopping or chick-flicks and therefore finds it a huge burden to compromise. Therefore finds little in common.

c. Upgrading/ unrealistic standards.
Always on the lookout for someone richer, sexier, etc. ("If the hottest person at school/ work/ the club just got to know me, he/she would know I'm a great person.")

[pisces2473]

Daphne--

You point out some solid reasons why a lot of relationships don't work...but I don't think they fit for people who can't find any dates AT ALL. I'm talking about myself and at least a few others on this board who have said so.

I AM ready to make an emotional investment with someone. I am willing to make that committment. But where do you go when you can't find anyone to even date casually, nevermind seriously??? I have never been approached by a guy who didn't want just a hookup. I have been told by so many people that I'm pretty, smart, quick-witted, caring, sensitive, etc etc. And still no one ever took a chance on me, asked me to dance, and so on. What happens to us then? Maybe it's some stuff from my past that has ruined me, so to speak (depression, weight battles, medical problems)...I don't know.

If I seem really down, you can check out my thread on this board about "Another problem with friends thread...LONG" It explains all...

[pisces2473]

Krazykat--

It's awesome to see that someone has decided to keep this very long thread alive! So many people on here feel the way both you and I described, but it's too damn frustrating! I haven't been on a date in almost 2 years. I don't forsee any dates coming along either....grrrr...

Take care! :)

[reva_544]

krazykat,

One of my favorite quotes:

"People are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." --Abraham Lincoln

It's kind of "the grass is always greener" theory. I would guess that without the hard work and determination it takes to be happy, no one would be happy at the 9 to 10 level. You can have everything in the world and still be unhappy. Those who are happy at the 9 to 10 level have made a conscious decision to look at what they do have rather than what they don't. They have made the choice to be happy, so no, they should not have to give up happiness points to those who won't work for it.

Part of becoming satisfied with your life is by taking responsibility for it. In every situation you have choice. If you are unsatified with something, you have a choice to do something that could change that. Or you have the choice to just sit there and feel sorry for yourself.

I'm not saying that this is easy...and tough times come along when this idea is forgotten. I'm just saying that thinking this way has helped me feel more in control of my life and more motivated to make changes and do things that I was afraid to do before.

This really has nothing to do with being behind on the dating curve...which I am by the way. But maybe radiating a positive engery rather than misery can help in finding someone to date. People can pick up on that sort of negativity.