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midtwenty
09-17-2004, 02:58 PM
I was having a conversation with a co-worker today, and she asked me if we go to church. I told her no, and she proceeded to tell me how awful that is, how there is no way I can get into heaven unless I go every Sunday, how my life is incomplete without going to church, and that we shouldn't even think about having a child if we weren't going to take it to church. Frankly, I was offended by her behavior. I feel that religion is a deeply personal thing, and for her to react the way she did was, I felt, really out of line.

On to the title of the thread. My "church" is similar to home school. We home church. I know what kind of relationship I have with God, I talk to God, my husband and I have conversations about God and how He's working in our lives, and we tithe in other ways besides giving money to a church. We give our time, our love, our helping hands, and whatever we can give to charity.

So, I was very polite, but basically told this lady she was talking out her ass and I didn't appreciate her judgmental attitude. Really, the point of my post isn't to debate the pros and cons of attending church, but to vent my frustration towards people who purport themselves to be so forgiving, so understanding, so open minded, so Christian - and then act like this woman did.

gluegun
09-17-2004, 03:04 PM
Ug...I don't know how you withstood listening to that woman!

SweetGirl
09-17-2004, 03:06 PM
I understand your frustration. Living here in texas, I encounter it all the time. I have deep faith and I am spiritual in my own way. I just don't go to places of worship and I don't appreciate when people start telling me what to do. I agree about religion being a deeply personal thing.

Just smile and nod and try to change the subject. If she hounds you try avoiding her. Believe me, getting into debates with people like her will lead no where.

bigboom
09-17-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by gluegun
Ug...I don't know how you withstood listening to that woman!

i woulda gotten into a LONG debate with her over how i dont need church to live my life properly as a person.

wordsmith
09-17-2004, 03:12 PM
I'm with you, midtwenty...people who wanna judge you on religious issues make me wanna gouge my eyes out. It's so personal.

I'm a spiritual person, and a practicing mainstream protestant Christian. I used to WORK for a church, doing youth outreach. I also have rarely gone to church in the past three years. I miss going, but I don't feel that my spirituality has suffered for not having attended services often. I'm a person who really enjoys going to church, when I've got a church that feels right. I really got a lot out of the community aspect of the church I worked for, and since then, I haven't found a church that feels the same. So it's hard to go and not feel that community. I'd rather just delve into my spirituality individually than go to church and be sad that it's not the experience I want.

paiger81
09-17-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by SweetGirl
I understand your frustration. Living here in texas, I encounter it all the time.

This cracked me up! Sweetgirl, I grew up in Lake Jackson<-take 288 South for 45min and you'll run into LJ. I'm not sure if it is a Texas thing, or a Houston thing, I mean come on-THE SUMMIT(It will always be the summit) is turning into a church!! Now that is ridiculous!!!

My favorite would be having a Mormon show up on my doorstep saying "All the Lord requires of us is to take bread once a month" I looked at her, smiled, and said "Sweetheart, I'm Catholic, I take it every weekend, so I guess I am covered." Then shutting the door.

gluegun
09-17-2004, 03:25 PM
Don't even get me started on the mormons.

signed,

The Only Liberal in Utah

bigboom
09-17-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by gluegun
Don't even get me started on the mormons.

signed,

The Only Liberal in Utah

well theny ou dont want to get me started on Jehova's witnesses, wicked nice people that come to my door EVERy single fricking saturday but cant they give me a break every now and then?

SweetGirl
09-17-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by paiger81

I mean come on-THE SUMMIT(It will always be the summit) is turning into a church!! Now that is ridiculous!!!



Yeah they are turning over compaq center to lakewood church. I guess it's good that they moved the games and concerts to toyota center because the traffic situation at compaq center on a game night was horrendous! Especially because I used to live right round the corner at 59 and buffalo speedway.

WeirdBrake
09-17-2004, 04:04 PM
This story is worth repeating:

When I was in Hebrew School, this one teacher at the synagogue told us that one time a while back he encountered a fundamentalist who had the nerve to say to him, "You people do realize you're going to hell, don't you?" And he replied, "Well, you know us Jews, we'll just start up a chain of air-conditioned hotels down there."

midtwenty
09-17-2004, 04:05 PM
I'm a person who really enjoys going to church, when I've got a church that feels right.

Exactly. And the saddest part of it is that to me, fewer and fewer churches have the potential to feel "right" with every passing year. I just really feel that my relationship with God is best served as I see fit, not as a random group of people see fit.

Of course, this is the same woman who once tried to tell me that one day I would wake up and hate my parents for spanking me as a child. She's got a penchant for telling people how they should feel and what they should do. I should probably stop talking to her, but I'm constantly amazed at how disassociated with reality she is, so I keep going back.

wordsmith
09-17-2004, 04:06 PM
Snort.

My NEIGHBOR, the only other tenant I share a corridor with, is a Jehovah's Witness.

personalegend
09-17-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by WeirdBrake
This story is worth repeating:

When I was in Hebrew School, this one teacher at the synagogue told us that one time a while back he encountered a fundamentalist who had the nerve to say to him, "You people do realize you're going to hell, don't you?" And he replied, "Well, you know us Jews, we'll just start up a chain of air-conditioned hotels down there."

LOL....I just tell people that jews don't believe in hell so I don't have to worry

paiger81
09-17-2004, 04:35 PM
Kirk was raised Jehovah's Witness. It's great, whenever they come knocking I just go get him, he has a whole routine "Oh really!? Well I just moved to the area, and was looking for a new place!!?" He basically has a whole reverse psychology routine.

gluegun
09-17-2004, 04:38 PM
My token response to people who feel they have the right to spout out religious doctrine to me is:

"Why would I want to go to your heaven? I can't stand to be around you people here."

Multiades
09-17-2004, 05:12 PM
People like that wierd me out. It's one thing to discuss religious matters, even if for the purpose of debate or philospophical argument -- it is another thing ENTIRELY to exert your personal opinions on another and express that you have some sort of absolute viewpoint. There was one guy like that in a class I had titled "Philosophy and Religion", and listening to him was unbearable.


...like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.The above quotes are from fictitious characters of the late Robert A. Heinlein (who happens to be my favorite author). I feel that the latter quote is particularly relevant and worrisome of late. :(

-Chris

midtwenty
09-17-2004, 05:20 PM
The above quotes are from fictitious characters of the late Robert A. Heinlein (who happens to be my favorite author).

I love Heinlein! One of my top 5 favorite authors, for sure.


I just couldn't believe what this lady was saying to me. I have a real problem with people trying to force me into a set of values, beliefs, or opinions.

Multiades
09-17-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by midtwenty
I love Heinlein! One of my top 5 favorite authors, for sure.Sweet! :D

I got started on Heinlein early; sixth grade actually. He brings something different to sci-fi that I can really appreciate. One of his novels I've read almost twenty times. :eek:



Originally posted by midtwenty
I just couldn't believe what this lady was saying to me. I have a real problem with people trying to force me into a set of values, beliefs, or opinions. I know. It might be a bad habit, but I have no qualms about returning fire in a similarly offensive manner if it REALLY bothers me (though I'm mostly polite until my patience runs low).

-Chris

WeirdBrake
09-17-2004, 05:34 PM
Midtwenty... what you should have said to her: "If you think I'm going to hell, then to hell with you!"


I feel that the latter quote is particularly relevant and worrisome of late.

I would agree, Multiades. I have an enormous problem with the belief in hell on its face. It's essentially the belief that certain people will be-- and deserve to be-- punished by God with eternal suffering. Now, sorry if this offends, but I don't believe ANYONE deserves to suffer for eternity. I find the very concept of "eternal suffering" to be a highly disturbing and heartless one. Is it any wonder that those who truly believe in hell-- or worse, believe that people will be sent to hell for mere disagreement with religious doctrines-- have committed atrocities like the Inquisition or heretic-burning or the 9/11 attacks?

kitalyn414
09-17-2004, 05:39 PM
GRRRRRRRRRRRR! people are so ignorant. the whole point of christianity is to be loving and kind. just keep going on condemning your friends, family, coworkers, everyone. since you show up for 1 hour out of 168 hours a week to listen to a speech, clearly you are better and more deserving of good things than everyone who doesnt.

Multiades
09-17-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by WeirdBrake
I would agree, Multiades. I have an enormous problem with the belief in hell on its face. It's essentially the belief that certain people will be-- and deserve to be-- punished by God with eternal suffering. Now, sorry if this offends, but I don't believe ANYONE deserves to suffer for eternity. I find the very concept of "eternal suffering" to be a highly disturbing and heartless one. Is it any wonder that those who truly believe in hell-- or worse, believe that people will be sent to hell for mere disagreement with religious doctrines-- have committed atrocities like the Inquisition or heretic-burning or the 9/11 attacks? Absolutely. Extremism in any circumstance is certainly a lack of compassion. How is it appropriate that your belief(s) should have some forced impact on someone else's beliefs or life? How can you justify harming someone else in the name of your beliefs?

Totally inappropriate.

-Chris

midtwenty
09-17-2004, 05:51 PM
One of his novels I've read almost twenty times.
Which one? I've read a LOT of them at least that many times.


Midtwenty... what you should have said to her: "If you think I'm going to hell, then to hell with you!"
HA! Good one. But c'mon WB. You know me. I never would have been able to stop there. ;)


since you show up for 1 hour out of 168 hours a week to listen to a speech, clearly you are better and more deserving of good things than everyone who doesnt.
That is one of my objections surrounding the whole church experience. I don't appreciate being made to feel that my relationship with God is somehow impaired or inhibited because I don't have my ass in a pew every time the doors are open. I have known people who would lie, cheat, steal, have affairs...then go to church and think that wipes it all away.

Multiades
09-17-2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by midtwenty
Which one? I've read a LOT of them at least that many times.Starship Troopers actually. I know, I know... it's an easy read, but I love being able to pick it up at any paragraph and glean some clever bit of wisdom or read about his fictitious (though not at all unbelievable) technology. Wading through the military chain-of-command stuff can be difficult though.

What are your favorites? I'm a big fan of The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress and Time Enough For Love, though I'm long overdue to re-read the latter; I cried at the end.

-Chris

midtwenty
09-17-2004, 05:59 PM
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a good one. My favorite as a kid was Podkayne of Mars because I felt like I identified with Poddy.

Hey, I'll PM you next week and we'll talk sci-fi. I'm headed out for the weekend.

Multiades
09-17-2004, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by midtwenty
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a good one. My favorite as a kid was Podkayne of Mars because I felt like I identified with Poddy.

Hey, I'll PM you next week and we'll talk sci-fi. I'm headed out for the weekend. Cool. Chat later. :)

-Chris

dietzy
09-20-2004, 09:55 AM
Will you go to hell if you do not go to church? I do not believe this to be the case. Someone could actually have NEVER gone to church and accept God into their life on their death bed and go to heaven.

For awhile, I too would say, "well I don't need to go to church because I can watch a sermon on TV and sit here and read the Bible." What I have found over the years though is that church is a very important tool to assist with developing your relationship with Christ. The Bible actually mentions the benefits of gathering with fellow Christians for learning, but also for fellowshipping. I know for me, there is a rejuvenation when I get to fellowship and worship with other Christians weekly at church. I also get to learn from the pastor who has the ability to spend more time reading and studying the Bible in depth because it is his job and received training to do so.

Obviously if you are attending a church where the preacher just gets up there and chants set sayings or doesn't preach from the Bible then there might not be as much benefit from going. Some churches are rather dead in their spirit and enthusiasm for God and can be counterproductive in my opinion. But we always have the option of going somewhere else.

wordsmith
09-20-2004, 10:11 AM
It's interesting. I pretty much mainly appreciate church for the fellowship aspect of it. Although some may disagree, I can study theology and such on my own, at my own pace, and feel like I've come to some understanding of things. I can meditate and pray, or take a walk in the woods, and have it feed me spiritually. But I like church services themselves ideally because of the coming together of people who care about one another...the personification of Christianity, to me. And I don't think you get that in all churches, so I tend to hold out for ones where you do.

cheesy_puff
09-20-2004, 12:06 PM
Heaven sounds pretty boring. And all the fun people are in hell. So why not enjoy the ride?

Jehovas Witness quit bothering with me They just mail me letters now. Apparently I am a lost cause.

Sus122079
09-20-2004, 12:15 PM
That lady is crazy! ;) It's funny; I am the daughter of a Jewish mother and a Presbyterian father. So yeah, technically, I'm Jewish (in the Jewish religion, if your mother is Jewish, so are you), but, as neither my mother or father has attended church or synogogue since they were very little, my sister and I were raised the same way and don't really consider ourselves to be anything (though don't tell my Jewish grandmother that, haha!)

We celebrate all of the holidays, which is really cool (my b-day is 12/20, so in December I celebrate that, Hanukkah, and X-mas--lotsa presents:p) but we don't have much of an understanding of them, which kinda sucks.

I guess I just stick to believing that there is some higher being out there, though I have no idea who/what he is.

GetMeOuttaDC
09-21-2004, 05:54 PM
your coworker was WRONG to say that to you period; it is most likely harassment that she asks you that stuff at work.

being new to Virginia, I am encountering "born again" Christians and HATE THEM!!! they are the most judgemental people!

At my last job, I made the mistake of mentioning having parents of 2 different faiths to a coworker who asked, and found religious tracts on my desk every freakin day. they made great coasters and liners for my rabbit cage.

midtwenty
09-21-2004, 06:16 PM
your coworker was WRONG to say that to you period; it is most likely harassment that she asks you that stuff at work.

Yeah, well, I'd complain except this lady happens to be our HR director!

these1000hills
09-28-2004, 06:43 PM
What the lady said about someone going to hell for not being in church every week was untrue. In addition, her whole attitude is disappointing. Why would she focus on a negative, threatening message to you, rather than sharing something positive, encouraging about her "faith"?
I am led to conclude that her faith is rather shallow and that she is not very secure about it.

libscigrl
09-29-2004, 02:52 PM
As for Judaism and lineage, I think the reason it goes by your mother has to do with being better able to determine who your mother is than your father. But I could be wrong on that.

As for MidTwenty's coworker, I'm not sure I want to even get started.

Let's just say I'm glad I'm not a violent person; the kinds of assumptions made by fundamentalists about others and their religion (or lack thereof) is a pet peeve that goes to the very core of who I am. "GrrrrrrRRRRR!!!!" does not even BEGIN to cover it.