Fear Factor

[Unregistered]

I wanted to address a situation I've been experiencing for a while now. This may have already been discussed, but I thought a new thread was warranted.

I've been reading a few of the posts on here about guys being shy and worrying about meeting new people. Well, I don't really consider myself shy (maybe a little), but here's the thing:

I've been to quite a few bars/clubs here in Houston within the past 4 years or so (I'm 27 now - I graduated college in '98). And, is it just me or do girls just love to play mind-games? Like everyone else on here meeting girls seemed so much easier in the past. I've read many posts on here saying that the guy should make the first move and start up a conversation, etc. Well, here's my dilema (an example).......my freind and I recently went to a club and he approached an attractive female at the bar. He initiated the conversation, continued talking with her a while and then, out of the blue, she said the following:

"So, what makes you think I'd be interested in someone like you?"

WHAM!! Ok, at this point I guess he could have come up with some witty come-back line, but my freind and I are really not the "entertainer" type (which reminds me of another theory of mine about women only wanting a guy to entertain them). Anyway, the girl basically blew my freind off for no apparent reason other than to torment the remaining dignity he possessed.

Now, not to be cocky, but to put things in perspective, I consider myself (and my freind) to be pretty good "catches" (good-looking, good shape, intellegent, blah, blah). The only thing going against me would be my height I guess (I'm only about 5'8"- which by the way is an entirely different issue worth discussion I think)

Anyhow, ladies, help me out, if us guys are willing to make the moves and stick our.......necks out on the line, what's up with the "I'm too good for you" attitude? I mean, come on, we're not perfect, but at least we try. You say some guys won't come up and talk to you......well, in many cases it's not shyness, it's fear of being made to look like a fool. Now, don't get me wrong, I can handle rejection, but it just seems this is happening a lot recently, and more so than when I was in school. Can anyone suggest how to overcome this fear?

[Maximus]

Thanks for the reply and I agree with you. I think both sexes do suffer from the same social disorders nowadays. I guess people just tend to get caught up in their own drama they don't stop to realize sometimes everyone else is experiencing the same issues.

However, I guess I am a bit selfish when it comes to my opinion on these sort of situations. It just seems from my collective observations that many women these days take advantage of their physical appearance. By this I mean the first thing at the top of a guy's wish list is physical appearance - am I right? (I know it's not the only thing, but let's be honest) Whereas with women, I don't think it matters as much what a guy looks like as long as he is confident, has a good personality, and is over 5'10" (ok that one's just from experience).

My point is that women these days have POWER in terms of using their physical appearance to manipulate and taunt their male couterparts. Just look at all the media - commercials, movies, etc. What's the one common, reoccuring theme in all these? I'll tell you - it's Scantily-clad beautiful women - sex sells! There are many (not all) women out there who take advantage of this fact - and the numbers seem to be increasing - especially in bars/clubs where physical appearance matters the most. I've seen numerous girls show up at clubs just there to "show off" and get attention - they could care less about meeting any guys. Now, I know there are (I hope) women out there (somewhere) who don't fit this category, but I haven't found any yet. To be honest, I hope some reply to this, cause they're the kind I'm looking for!!

[M4A1]

It is all psychological, just as many other things. This is why they have psychological exams for cops, FBIs and special military operatives, but you don’t need to be able to work as security personnel to have this fearless quality. This attribute can be learned, and can be improved through practice. You can apply this quality to achieve excellence in many tasks—from dating to your QLC.

As for the girl that your friend was after, she might have been very accustomed to the club scene. She probably knew exactly what your friend was after. Did your friend know what he was doing, or what he wanted? If not, then he had 2 disadvantages.

I wouldn’t think much of the incident if I were your friend. I am sure you don’t think much of it either. It’s a club. What do you expect from an infamous place like that? Personally, I don’t go clubbing to meet strangers. I only go when my friend invites me to go with her group.

[CAT11]

Have to agree about the club scene. What a meat market. Try nicer places to meet nice girls. We don't go to clubs that much, because in general, they feel sleazy. The girl you speak of was a clubho. She is what your granny used to call a bad apple.

About the height thing, if you are sensitive about it, it will show. I am 5'7" and your height would be perfect. The average woman in America is 5'4". She doesn't want her face in your armpit.

One more thing, because I am running out of time. Girls are also concerned for thier safety on a far different level than guys. Always put the ball in her court. Give her your phone number. Or ask for her cell. Or email. Or just her yours. Offer to meet in public places for the first few dates. Let her reveal at her own pace. Give her time to establish a sense of safety with you. It is a very gentlemanly thing to do.

[Maximus]

I agree with your opinion on clubs. I don't prefer them either (I hate them actually), but let's face it, where do the majority of single women in their 20's congregate? CLUBS! Sure, many of them aren't the type I would want to settle down with, but what other places exist where single people come together for the mutual purpose of "hooking up"?

Ok, I know, I've heard the recurring themes: going to church, taking a cooking class, grocery stores, work, etc. I've tried some of these and do plan on trying more, but it just seems unlikely I'm gonna meet ms. right reaching for the frozen oj or picking up a hot chick while I'm doing "hail marys". I know, it could happen, but I guess I've become very skeptical on fate within the past few years. You can only tell yourself "it's gonna happen, just have patience" so many times before you go NUTS!! And no, I'm not desparate (but sure I get lonely just like everyone else) - I don't try and pick up on everything that has a heartbeat.......I was refering to the fact that you have to "force" yourself into a situation where you can meet other people. Obviously, from there, it'll happen or it won't.

As for the height thing, sure I'm a little sensitive (obviously since I'm writing this paragraph), you would be too if you were a guy my height. Trust me, height is much less of an issue for females. Many of my freinds actually prefer short women. For guys, even at my height, you tend to get less respect than you would if you were taller (even though I'm pretty well-built). And yes, it does depend on your personality - I consider myself fairly confident, but you put me up to a guy 6'2" he'll get more respect every time. I know for a fact there are quite a few women out there that won't even consider a guy unless he's 5'10" or taller. I even saw a 60 min show one time on this issue and they had a room full of guys and women. They told the women to pick their top three guys and guess who they selected - all the tall men!! They many other have proven studies on this thing.....trust me I've looked into it:) So, yes it's frustrating, but I don't let it consume my every thought if that's what you think.

Anyhow, if you don't think clubs are the answer, where else do you ladies hang out in mass numbers? Honestly, I think my biggest dilema right now is simply finding a situation or environment where I can meet women. I'm pretty confident I can hanle it from there.....I mean I've never had these issues until I graduated college and the only thing I can see that's changed is that I work 8-10 hrs/day and at work there's pretty slim pickins (many are over 40!, mostly men). So I think the answer may be just finding places where I'm in the physical presence of other females!! I think I can probably handle it from there.........:)

[M4A1]

I just went on Yahoo to see how many professional athletes are over 5’11’’. And you know what? With the exception of basketball, in other pro-sports especially NFL and MLB, half of the players are only near 6 feet or under. A good number of them are as tall as you. But I bet that they have no problem in getting dates.

Is it because they are professional athletes? Or is it something else?

I suggest that you drop the self-defeating talk of you-aren’t-tall-enough. It is only an issue, when you make it an issue, and let’s just leave it at that. Now, turn all of your attention to something you can work on-- your self-confidence.

In order to be confident, you have got to have something for you to feel confident about. Now ask yourself, what area do you feel confident in? Physical fitness, wittiness or kindness? Maybe there is something else? Maybe it’s a combination of these qualities. But you NEED to know what it is. When you know yourself, you’ll have something that can help to build that confidence.

If your strength is being a nice person, as in you know how to treat a lady right, then you should consider taking your game to some place other than a club. Not many ladies would go to a club to be picked-up by a nice guy. At least from my experience, I can tell you that there are so many things that’s going on that you don’t know about. I didn’t know about it either, until I went with someone from the “in-crowd.” There were so many crazy things going on in the VIP section. I thought they only existed in the movies, but I know that’s NOT a place that I feel comfortable in …

I’m stopping here. Just remember-- you’ll become what you think.

[Maximus]

No, I'm sure pro-athletes have no problem getting dates, because they're PRO-ATHLETES! Celebrities are in an entirely different category - everyone wants to be one and every women wants to be with one regardless of physical appearance, so don't try to lessen the issue by using them as an example.

As for the confidence thing......I was simply explaining the issue based on my experiences. By the way how tall are you? Cause if you're over 5'8", you have no business talking about this situation since you haven't had to deal with it. Besides, I only brought up the issue as a joke to begin with, then was simply elaborating based on someone asking me how I deal with it - lighten up!

You know, I've noticed recently there are a lot of people quick to point the finger on here and start slamming people. That's kinda disappointing......I really thought this was a site where people could come together and share mutual experiences.

[M4A1]

You completely misunderstood me. I did not slam you in my previous post. I’m just pointing out the fact that a lot of pro-athletes managed to achieve excellence despite the fact that they are, as you said, not up to the “standards” of some women’s preference as they found that 60 minute show.

All I’m saying is that it don’t matter if you are 5’8’’ or 6’2’’. There is always someone that is taller, stronger or better in some way. If you cannot build the confidence, or believe in yourself, then you will always be a victim.

[Maximus]

Sounds fine to me......I admit I do tend to get a bit defensive about the height thing, but it's primarily based on my own personal experiences - didn't mean to lash out at M4A1 like that. Of course I think everyone has their "hot-buttons"......I'll try and work on it.

Weirdbrake - you have my official vote as mediator around this place!

[faithmykal]

Max,
You do have to be cautious in the club scene, especially here in Houston. I go out quite a bit because I love to dance and I find the same situations with the guys. I think I look great, but I can't get any response from a decent guy all night.
Some girls, though, really get off on being mean and I don't understand it either.
If a guy approaches me and I'm not really feeling him, I am as nice as possible so as not to hurt his feelings. The problem tends to come from guys who can't take a "no" and keep asking for my number, etc. I still won't turn on the bitch, I just try to extract myself from the situation.
As for your height, I think 5'8" is fine! My last boyfriend was 5'5" and I'm 5'7" The only problem, really, was that I like to wear high heels and he couldn't stand me being that much taller than him.

Sorry about the incident with your friend, but some girls are just like that. Don't give up completely because nice girls go to clubs too - I do!

[squirmy]

Okay, I'm going to try my best to interpret that girl's behavior who totally squashed your friend:

It begins with confidence and the lack thereof. Now, for some girls, the starting point may be not having any at all. She may wonder if anyone will notice her when she enters a place. For others, it may just be a question of who will notice her, or how many.

Then, the moment arrives when someone does turn his attention to her. At this point, the whole lack of confidence thing starts to disintegrate. And when he approaches her, she is totally validated. So by the time he asks her out or for her number, that validation is a springboard for feeling like the one in control, the one in power. It's no loss to her with whatever she says. No matter what, she wins.

One other explanation is that she is totally repulsed by the guy and doesn't care at all about what she says to get him away from her. I think that's just wrong.

That's simply my take on it since I've done those things before, regretfully. And to the guys out there who've had this happen to them, I truly apologize. I've learned to change my ways.

By the way, I agree with faithmykal--5'8" is a great height (I'm about 5'4"). My neck gets tired being around really tall guys after a while.

[Maximus]

Thanks for the support ladies, it's refreshing to hear there are still some obviously intellegent, open-minded women still out there. :)

I agree with you on the power theory (I actually got into that earlier in this thread), I just don't get why there always has to be a "struggle" for control. I can somewhat relate to this, but I think we all need to re-evaluate our role in these situations - both parties have to be willing to "expose" themselves to some degree and put it on the line. Maybe that's why many people put up the infamous, defensive "wall" because they're afraid, like you say, thier counterparts are just waiting to be "validated".

Faithmykal - you do seem like a nice girl. So, which clubs do the "nice girls" frequent? I've already tried both extremes from downtown "yuppie-ville" (Tonic, Spy, Elvias, 311, Grasshopper, Mercury Room,etc) to completely Ghetto (CoCo Loco, T-town), do you have any other suggestions? I've heard Polyesthers is really popular. I'm actually going to Crystal tonight (I kinda have a thing for latin women;)) Although, honestly, I've almost given up on the club scene........

[faithmykal]

I've gone to all of them also, every one you mentioned! Polyesters is fun if you like 70's and 80's music. The crowd is a bit older and fairly laid back. It is a non-pretentious, fun club, especially if you like to dance.
Crystal is a good latin club and so is Metropolis. Downtown there's Paesanos (sp?), 511, Solero and some Cantina - all are decent, if small, Latin places.
For me it depends on the music mood I'm in. I love to dance Latin, so those clubs are my current favorites.
Good luck with the girlies, I think it is just going to have to be a lengthy weed-out process... for me also.