Anybody else afraid to have kids?

[gluegun]

So I just read the book intro that Lorion talks about in the "men becoming instinct" thread. It sort of confirmed the fears that I already have about having kids. These days I just plain don't want to do it. I really really don't want to take time off from my career to have kids. My husband-to-be is unwillinging to take time away from his career either. So what are we left with? Letting the kids be raised by strangers?

I feel like everybody in my life just assumes that I will have children some day. It isn't "if", it is "when". Is it possible that some people just aren't meant to have that experience?

Why do I feel guilty and unatural? I keep waiting for biological clock to kick in, but I'm already 25 and I don't feel a thing.

I wish that I could stop fighting myself and just feel at peace with the decision to have a childless marriage.

[bigboom]

i think if you are going to have kids you should be able to put in the time to raise it yourself. i wouldnt trust it to someone else to raise, ive seen so many kids go to daycare and absolutely hate it...i would not want to put my kids through that. so i think you're doing the right thing in not wanting kids especially if you or your partner dont want to take time off to take care of it...

it=him/her :)

[WeirdBrake]

I know I'm a guy, so it's a little different without the whole "biological clock/maternal instinct" element, but I absolutely do not ever want to have kids. Mostly for 2 reasons:

1) I wouldn't want the responsibility.

2) I would not want to bring them into this world.

The first is self-explanatory. There's not much more I can say about that.

The second is the more important reason. I look at the world, and it all seems so.... screwed up!! Human life is a cosmically absurd circus. And while I value my life (and it's different because I'm already here), I can't justify bringing a baby into the world and thus forcing it to deal with all this crap. The craziness of world terrorism and war and all the other current stuff are just small examples. But the entire process of living is totally insane if you think about it. The stuff you have to go through... academic environments, standardized tests, the idea of competing with people for jobs and money and social status... not to mention the jungle of romantic and sexual relationships. And this is not even considering the possibility of my kid suffering something like clinical depression or a severe mental illness or physical disorder. Or having some horrible accident.

Guess I sounded pretty bleak, but that's how I feel about it.

If anything, I would NOT consider you unnatural for not wanting to have kids. You should not feel guilty.

[pisces2473]

Oh man. We've discussed this so many times, and each time I get more scared! LOL

Like you said:I really really don't want to take time off from my career to have kids. My husband-to-be is unwillinging to take time away from his career either. So what are we left with? Letting the kids be raised by strangers?

I totally agree with you...except me and my BF haven't really gotten ourselves too deep into our careers yet, but we DO know we'll have to work. Unless we win the lottery or something. It's like, why bother having children that you never get to see? I LOVE kids, but it's so sad...

[gluegun]

But do you think it is wrong and selfish to not want to take time off to take care of kids even if we can afford to only have one parent work?

[heatherf]

Glue-

You said it yourself- your issue is not whether or not you should have children, but why are you not accepting the fact that you do not WANT to have children.

I honestly think that the idea of actually having a child and how it will completely change your life is quite abstract until you actually give birth. You can prepare and read up on the subject all you want, but you can't do jack shit about it til the baby is here.

But I think a child is something that you should want, if you choose to get pregnant.

The whole act of having a child is selfish, period. The choices you make to put the child's priority before your own is selfless.

[heatherf]

Post Script: Should I really be reading and invloving myself in this thread?

:confused:

[gluegun]

You should absolutely be involved. I need your insight. You and your husband are trying to get pregnant soon,right? I find that decision to be so admirable. I can't even imagine being in that place. Do you mind if I ask you how old you are? Did you struggle to make this choice or did you always just "know" that you want to be a mom?

[WeirdBrake]

But do you think it is wrong and selfish to not want to take time off to take care of kids even if we can afford to only have one parent work?

No. Heather is right. What's wrong and selfish is having kids and then not doing what it takes to raise them well. Not having kids is not wrong in and of itself (unless you believe in some religious injunction to "be fruitful and multiply," and you don't :) ).

[wordsmith]

I'm not in the least afraid to have kids. I know I'd do a great job, the responsibility (barring the economic responsibility, see below) and I don't really feel bleak about the state of the world/humanity.

I am very afraid, however, that I might not ever be able to afford to. I've never had much money, I don't work in/ am not interested in working in a lucrative field, so that's not likely to change. I grew up poor, and I don't want that for kids of mine. I won't have kids unless I can afford them, which isn't looking good. But I love kids. In fact, it makes me sad that it just might not be in the cards unless things significantly change.

[cheshrcarol]

Gluegun, you're only 25. There's lots of time to make that decision. Maybe in 5 or 10 years you'll feel differently (yes I know 35 might be a little past the ideal age, but it's still definitely do-able, plus in 10 years there will be even more advances in medicine). And if you don't want to have kids, you don't. I think people should really want kids if they're going to have them, not just because it's expected.

I have kind of worried about the whole working/having kids thing. My parents both always worked and that allowed us to have a much better lifestyle than if I had just one working parent. But I did spend a lot of miserable time at babysitters after school. I think if I ever have kids I would like to work part time for a few years or at least work some of the time at home, and when they start school have a schedule that allows me to be home at the same time they are.

[gluegun]

Gluegun, you're only 25. There's lots of time to make that decision. Maybe in 5 or 10 years you'll feel differently

That is a good point. Never say never. That is why I was wondering how old Heather is. Sometimes I worry that my maternal clock is a bit behind.

[pisces2473]

See, I'm afraid that I'd have kids and even though I would love them and want the best for them...that I wouldn't be able to be there for them b/c it costs so damn much and that my husband and I would be at work all the time. We'd pick them up from the sitter's, go home, eat, play for a bit, then they'd go to bed. Talk about not bonding.

[heatherf]

Glue,

Yes, we are trying in less than a month (hold on, I need to start breating slowly into my paper bag).

I am 27, will be 28 in May. My husband is 29, will be 30 in May. Before I met my husband I had always thought that it was simply a given that I'd have a kid someday. After meeting my husband and sharing my life with him, seeing how we act with one another, it became more of wanting to add on to our family and sharing our love with our family. How corny does that sound?

When to try for a child has been only a little of the challenge. For us, our jobs are in no way a priority. Work sucks, not because I don't like my job ( I love my job), but I'd much rather be out doing stuff. And we have seen how difficult it is on an adult and the child when the parent is much older (35+) when the child is born. So, the sooner the better.

[Kitty]

I have never really felt the desire to have kids.

Sometimes I think, "Oh yeah, it would be cool in the future." But, I can't ever really picture myself getting pregnant.

I honestly think I'm too selfish to have kids. At least at this point in my life.

[pisces2473]

Heather, how long have you guys been married? Do you think you've been in the "married" state long enough? I'm curious, b/c I know some couples want to have kids RIGHT away and others want time to just be married, w/out extra burdens.

[gluegun]

After meeting my husband and sharing my life with him, seeing how we act with one another, it became more of wanting to add on to our family and sharing our love with our family. How corny does that sound?

Ahh...I think that is sweet.

[tartytwenty]

I don't want children. My bf said he didn't want them. His clock must have started ticking, because now he wants them...but not now. Scary indeed. But we know what we'll do, if it does happen, and I really am not sure of it, I'm like 90% no, but 10% maybe...but also later....like 10 years later...so this is all what ifs....

But he's an artist, low wages....part timer, so he would be able to stay home with kid(s) while I get to work in my lovely cubicle. So we have an ideal situation, for them...but..I want to be non-responsible for now.

Plus I'm scared of the pain. And yes, bringing someone into this crazy ass society...makes me think having kids is a raw deal.

[midtwenty]

I'm actually more afraid of the pregnancy and childbirth itself than any other aspect of having kids. Once I pop the kid out, I'll be totally fine. My husband and I have put a LOT of thought, discussion and preparation into this (as we do with every major decision) and we are now ready for it. It's ironic because I've spent the vast majority of my life with absolutely ZERO desire for children. Never wanted 'em, never needed 'em, never thought it would be worthwhile or fulfilling. The last few years have changed my mind. Don't ask me to articulate it because I can't, even to myself. But I will say this, I never wasted a moment feeling guilty over it when I didn't want children. Personally, I think it's admirable to be strong enough to resist the pressures of society and know that, for whatever reason, you could not provide the kind of life a child would need to grow into a well-adjusted adult. To me, that is a selfless act toward the children you DIDN'T have, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, yeah I'm scared and all, but once the physcial pregnancy and childbirth is over, I'm golden. Oh I know it will be hard and there will be good times and bad, blah blah blah, but I'm not afraid of any of that. I've already lived through hard times. I've already been to hell and back. That, I can handle.

[heatherf]

We got married in July 2003. I'm a little torn on the wanting to go and do tons of crap before we are tied down to home....but then again I think that work ties us down to home more than anything....we can travel when we are retired?!

Hmmmm. Marriage and living together has never been an issue with us....so I think we have been in the married state long enough.

Deciding to have a child literally keeps me awake at night girls. It's a HUGE responsibility, but shit, it's been done for thousands of years, by people who have way fewer resources than we do.

I was just thinking though- wait til I'm knocked up, I'll be on here everyday telling all of you NEVER to get pregnant.....

I wish it would just happen accidentially.

[kimmer23]

i know we have talked about the whole daycare issues on these boards before, but in the last week i have met 3 women (these women are between 18-27) that work in daycares. well one girl i ran into recently i went to high school with her and also played softball at the local ball park with her. well she is dumb as a post! the next girl i met because she is a customer of mine and then the other girl is a friend of a friend. all three of these girls are not the brightest. this totally scares me! dont they do some teaching at the daycares? i certainly dont want these 3 teaching my kids! good grief! i have this mind set now that young women with very little education are entering into this field because they dont need much education and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to change a diaper and feed a baby a bottle.

do i have the wrong thinking??

[coll214]

I lean more towards having them than not, but am not a 100% either way. I guess i'll see when the time comes.

and i know of a few people who had their kids accidentally and they all say it's one of the best things that has happened to them, accidental or not. In some cases even I think it's the deciding factor in what made them grow up. It forced them to see what they were doing to themselves b/c they had someone else depending on them.

kimmer- nope, not at all! I've seen a few from my hometown too and it's a bit disconcerting to think they're the ones watching the kids! not to mention when i hear of some of the people who are populating society :eek: w/ their offspring!

[Radgirl]

Has anyone considered adoption? That may be a road I may go down since I am physcially not able to have my own. If so, please share your thoughts.

[wordsmith]

I would say that you definitely aren't right if you think that all people who work in child care are uneducated or stupid, kimmer. I have had three different roommates who have been employed in child care, and all of them, men and women, are people who graduated with 4-year degrees with honors.

To teach preschool, which is different than being a general daycare employee, at least in every state I've lived in, you must have an early childhood education certification, which is at minimum a two-year program. So if you're a teacher, you're trained to teach.

It is, however, true that many daycares employ people who are not college-educated. Does this mean they're incapable of taking care of children? Absolutely not. My mother, who has a high school diploma, no college hours, and is one of the smartest people I know, worked as an aide in a daycare for several years when I was a teen. Now she's a special education aide in an elementary school. And she's one of the best, most beloved employees in the district. She constantly has parents approaching her, telling her what a difference she's made in the lives of their children.

It might not take a rocket scientist to bottle-feed an infant and change a diaper, but taking care of children well, in a way that parents who for whatever reason can't be there to care for their children full time are counting on, is a lot more complicated than just that.

[heatherf]

I have an urge to adopt a child- kinda a social responsibility feeling.

I've told my husband and he said that if we are financially ok....and think about it a lot.....do our homework...that it could be do-able.

I want to have my own child first though and see how that goes. Just like women being surrogate (the oven, not the bun).....they want them to have gone through the entire experience first- so they know that physically and mentally they can deal.

[wordsmith]

I've also considered adopting, heather, if I'm in a financial position to do so. Working with at-risk kids made me really extremely conscious to how many children are already born into the world desperately in need of good parents.

[pisces2473]

Originally posted by Radgirl
Has anyone considered adoption? That may be a road I may go down since I am physcially not able to have my own. If so, please share your thoughts.
I may not physically be able either, so I have thought about it.

[and1grad]

How many guys are on this thread? Looks like just me, boom, & dub. Anyway, I DEFINITELY want to have kids. I feel like I've learned a lot of things and I would feel like it was wasted if I couldnt impart it on my own. Plus, I have a feeling I would make a pretty good parent. I feel like there's ways around working and parenthood and that I, or my wife, wouldnt have to compromise either. And if I did, family ALWAYS comes first. Its funny that this comes up today, one of my best friends just told me, this morning, that his wife is expecting their first child!

[wordsmith]

If I were to pass the "safe" timeline mileposts for having children biologically, I would definitely consider adopting. I'd consider adopting anyway, as I noted above.

[tina1979]

I had my baby one month before I turned 21. And it is hard and I wasn't ready when i did it, but I honestly wouldn't change any of the hardships I have gone through and will continue to go through for the world. Yes she shes me and her Dad seperately and that is pretty tough on her, but she is young enough to adjust and not really know much difference. Yes she is in day care because I have to work 40hrs a week, but I work my @$$ off to put her in a good one. She has learned social interaction and she is extremly smart.

No Its not selfish to not want a child. It is a personal decision, that you shouldn't be forced into. Don't feel guilty about not wanting a child. It takes a great deal of time effort and money to raise a child, (I'm not saying that you couldn't do it because I am sure you could do it and do it well). The thing is you should feel worse having a child that you don't really want just because you feel like you should.

Alot of your fears are alleviated once the baby comes though. Yeah you have moments where you feel like you aren't good enough, or doing enough, but you know that baby looks at you and all he/she sees is unconditional love no matter the state of the world.

[LakeJay]

Originally posted by and1grad
I feel like there's ways around working and parenthood and that I, or my wife, wouldnt have to compromise either. And if I did, family ALWAYS comes first.

I feel the same way.

I can definitely say that I want kids. Watching my little cousins grow up...working with kids as a camp counselor and a bball coach...it's just great seeing the development of children. I think my parents did a great job with my sisters and I and I want to be able to do the same for any children I should have in the future. I have cousins and friends my age who have recently had children and I often hear that it's both the most rewarding and yet scariest experiences you could go through. I know it's not an easy "task" but I can see how the end would justify the means. I also like the idea of providing my parents with grandchildren.

With that said, I can totally understand others not wanting to have and raise children in today's society. It goes without saying that everyone has their different priorities. I think it's best to know that you don't want children when you don't have any than for someone to have children only to realize that they don't want to take on the responisibility.

[pisces2473]

Tina,
Do you feel like you and Aeryn are able to bond even though you are working all day and she is in daycare? Please don't take this offensive, I'm really curious...my cousins were in daycare and it seemed like my aunt was ALWAYS trying to go the extra mile for her kids b/c she felt bad and would let them stay up late and stuff b/c she never saw them.

And another question--did you plan on having kids someday (like before you got PG w/your daughter)? Did you think you'd become a mom?

I always see myself as being a mom someday and I know I'd be a good one. But it's the money/time thing... *sigh*

[pisces2473]

Question for everyone:

Do you think your relationships with your family affects you wanting/not wanting kids? I have a great family and I really want one of my own, I'm just scared I won't be able to do it like my mom did...then there are people I know who have bad family lives and don't want kids...

[wordsmith]

I was thinking this, too, Jen. Apart from my parents not being finacially equipped to have four kids, as it turned out, they did a phenmomenal job, and the kind of parents they are has definitely added to my desire to have a family of my own. I think family is the most important, strongest, most meaningful thing ever, even when it's imperfect and things aren't going smoothest. In fact, when things aren't going smoothest is when it's most important to be a family.

But I can see how people who didn't experience a strongly bonded family, or have negative family experiences might not place the same value on it as I do.

On the other hand, though, one of my best friends from childhood and youth was the product of a horribly abusive and neglected childhood. Against all odds, however, she and her husband and daughter are one of the strongest, most healthy, caring, and close families ever. It's like she got another chance with a family of her own, rather than the shitty one she was born into.

[tina1979]

Originally posted by pisces2473
Tina,
Do you feel like you and Aeryn are able to bond even though you are working all day and she is in daycare? Please don't take this offensive, I'm really curious...my cousins were in daycare and it seemed like my aunt was ALWAYS trying to go the extra mile for her kids b/c she felt bad and would let them stay up late and stuff b/c she never saw them.

And another question--did you plan on having kids someday (like before you got PG w/your daughter)? Did you think you'd become a mom?

I always see myself as being a mom someday and I know I'd be a good one. But it's the money/time thing... *sigh*
No offense taken. It is a completely valid question. Yes I think we bond just fine. The time that we do have together I make sure is quality. We eat dinner together, read stories at bed time, play, weekends we'll go see a kids movie. Its not always the quantity of time that you spend with your child, but the quality of time that you spend with him/or her.
I was against daycare at first, but now I look at my daughter and my nephew (both 4, she went to dc, he did not) and I can see a huge difference in social interaction and education. My sister was no slacker she taught him the things she thought he should know and he is smart for his age but in comparison my daughter has a greater education (I promise I am not saying this just because I am her mom, my sister, other family and friends notice it as well) She does better with other children because she is with people, and children. She speaks clearly and has a pretty hefty vocabulary for a 4 year old. Do I wish I could spend more time with her? Yes, undoubtedly. I would love to be able to stay at home and raise her myself, but I think after seeing her now even if I was a stay at home mom, I would have some sort of child care simply for the reasons I stated above.
Yes I have always wanted kids, I have always know that I would eventually have them, but I definately never planned on having an out of wedlock child with a guy I had only been dating 4 mths. I considered abortion and adoption. I talked to mom mom and I thought long and hard before I made my decision. My mom basically told me no matter what i chose she would support me one hundred percent and she would love me no matter what I did. She also told me that if you try to plan out your life, you will never have enough money or enough time for anything because something always comes up. Life is what happens while you are making plans. You make your decision then you adjust your life around it. Its hard for me financially, and I haven't gone back to school, and I missed out and am still missing out on a lot of things that my friends have done and are doing, but all in all I think Aeryn is my greatest accomplishment. I wouldn't go back and change anything.
I hope that made sense. Sorry its so long.

[pisces2473]

LOL don't apologize for the length! That's fine:)

Thanks for the answers....I've heard that people say the more kids socialize w/other kids, the better off they are. My mom purposely sent me and my brother to preschool at 3 yrs b/c there weren't any kids in our neighborhood and we didn't have many friends, and she wanted us to learn to get along w/ other people.

You're right on about trying to plan your life. You can't. I think that's the case w/ everything, not just trying to plan kids into your life.

I think Aeryn is lucky to have a great mom like you.

[wordsmith]

Food for thought re: daycare/childcare/preschool:

My mom stayed home when my sibs and I were little, so no need for daycare. I grew up out in the country with no other kids to play with, though, except for my brothers, who were born when I was 2, and my sister, who was born when I was 6. My parents didn't send me to preschool (although I was with other kids my age one day a week at Sunday School). My younger siblings all did go to preschool. I DEFINITELY think I'd have been a lot less shy if I'd been with more kids during that pre-school time. None of my siblings had my problem with shyness.

[Radgirl]

It's nice to see so many of you wanting to adopt. Should I be financially able to do so, I think that's the route I will go. However, I have no clue where to even start. I've thought about an international adoption, but I worry about funds, travel, and politics. Any of you have issues with your mate and adoption, the whole "not your seed" deal?

[gluegun]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I read an article that said that children who begin preschool at age 3 have higher self-esteem and more independence.


Pisces, to answer your question, I think that my parents did an OK job. There was certainly room for improvement, but I don't think that they messed me up in any substantial way. However, I do think it is interesting that the people on this thread who are most likely to give their parents rave reviews are also most excited to become parents themselves.

[wordsmith]

Well, I don't at present have a mate. But anybody I'd pursue something serious with would most likely be somebody who would feel similarly to me on that issue. There are various nonprofit orgs that can point you in the direction of adoption agencies, especially international adoption agencies.

[gluegun]

Any of you have issues with your mate and adoption, the whole "not your seed" deal?

My boyfriend is very interested in adopting. My brother-in-law was adopted and he is a fantastic guy. Knowing him sort of restores my faith in the entire idea of adoption.

However, both my parents are child psychologists. They strongly believe that so much of personality is just hard wired. When I mentioned the idea of adopting to my mom she said that she was concerned because "a lot of the adopted kids she sees have a lot of problems". In other words, you might get a kid who is mentally ill, etc.

(Again, those are her words. Not mine.)

[wordsmith]

Originally posted by gluegun
I don't know if this is true or not, but I read an article that said that children who begin preschool at age 3 have higher self-esteem and more independence.

I'd definitely agree with the self-esteem part, in my own personal experience. Independence, not so much in my case. Because I grew up largely on my own, and entertaining myself, I'd say I had a larger than average independent streak. But I was VERY shy and didn't have as high of self-esteem for a long time (mostly from being shy).

[gluegun]

But, no, I would not have a problem with the kid "not being my seed".

[pisces2473]

If the mate wants a child badly enough, they're gonna have to deal w/ it possibly not being of their seed.

[wordsmith]

Originally posted by gluegun


My boyfriend is very interested in adopting. My brother-in-law was adopted and he is a fantastic guy. Knowing him sort of restores my faith in the entire idea of adoption.

However, both my parents are child psychologists. They strongly believe that so much of personality is just hard wired. When I mentioned the idea of adopting to my mom she said that she was concerned because "a lot of the adopted kids she sees have a lot of problems". In other words, you might get a kid who is mentally ill, etc.

(Again, those are her words. Not mine.)

Sure, you might get a kid who is mentally ill. But you also might HAVE a kid who is mentally ill, or has a learning disability, or emotional problems, or a physical handicap, etc.

I'm not jumping on you, g.g. It's just that it stands to reason to me that you can't place an order for a "perfect" baby or child, whether you're adopting, or giving birth/fathering a child. That's just the way life is.

[Radgirl]

My bf was also adopted, but at a later age (10 years old). I know he wants his own, but we'll see. Unfortunately, adoption will be my only way. I'm glad to see it hasn't caused any strain in relationships.

[cheshrcarol]

Originally posted by gluegun
When I mentioned the idea of adopting to my mom she said that she was concerned because "a lot of the adopted kids she sees have a lot of problems". In other words, you might get a kid who is mentally ill, etc.

(Again, those are her words. Not mine.) One of my closest friends is adopted, and she one's of the more well-adjusted people I know. She's also very similar to her family in a lot of ways. Gluegun, I wonder if those kids your mom has experience with grew up knowing they were adopted or if they were told later? I would think finding out that your parents aren't actually related to you would be pretty traumatic and maybe cause you to have problems.

[coll214]

What's still so disheartening w/ adoption is the strict guidelines put on it... anybody can get pregnant, but not nearly every couple that want to adopt can. My cousin was a therapist for prospective adoptive parents for awhile and has said it's hard to do... Which is sad b/c her and her hubby would be great parents, but due to health reasons would have a hell of a time being able to adopt. and they both know it.

[gluegun]

I'm not jumping on you, g.g. It's just that it stands to reason to me that you can't place an order for a "perfect" baby or child, whether you're adopting, or giving birth/fathering a child. That's just the way life is.

Trust me, I think adoption is a wonderful thing. I'm strongly leaning towards doing it myself (if I have kids at all). I'm just playing devils advocate here and mentioning what my mom said.

That said, I do think that adopting is a bigger "crapshoot" than having kids yourself. You have no idea what kind of genes the adopted child is coming from. Which, by the way, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most adoptive parents find themselves in the unique position of being able to help the children that need love and support the most.

[gluegun]

Gluegun, I wonder if those kids your mom has experience with grew up knowing they were adopted or if they were told later?

Well I can think of a few of the patients that my mom is referring to. They are both a different race than their birth parents so I'm sure that it didn't take long for the kids to notice the differences.

[wordsmith]

No, I understand. One of my former roommates was adopted as an infant from a Korean orphanage, and has no records of any information relating to her birth parents. Though she's one of the most together, and emotionally well-adjusted people ever, she said many times that it's hard for her to not know things like family medical history, what sorts of things she might be predisposed to, what genetic makeup she's carrying, what genes she could be passing on, etc. that she'd have a closer idea of if she knew any family history

[gluegun]

Right. Another concern of mine would be the level of prenatal care the kid got before it was born. What if the birth mother took drugs during the pregnancy?

And I'm not necessarily saying that knowing this would be a deal breaker. In some ways I would almost prefer to adobt a child that come from a challenging background. If I have the means to care for somebody like that then why not step up to the plate? Either was I just think that adoptive parents should be clear about what they're getting themselves in to.

(For example, my brother in law's birth mother was a pregnant teen. She had good nutrition all through her pregnancy. She is smart. There was no history of substantial medical or mental problems in her family. I can guarantee you that that had a huge influence on my brother turning out so well adjusted)

[tina1979]

Originally posted by pisces2473
LOL don't apologize for the length! That's fine:)

Thanks for the answers....I've heard that people say the more kids socialize w/other kids, the better off they are. My mom purposely sent me and my brother to preschool at 3 yrs b/c there weren't any kids in our neighborhood and we didn't have many friends, and she wanted us to learn to get along w/ other people.

You're right on about trying to plan your life. You can't. I think that's the case w/ everything, not just trying to plan kids into your life.

I think Aeryn is lucky to have a great mom like you.

Thanks. I appreciate that!

[wordsmith]

No, it's true...my roommate's birth mother was, she believes, likely a prostitute, and it's entirely possible that she was born with a drug addiction. She's never evidenced any adverse effects, but it's hard not to know.

I've also read a lot of articles regarding children who were adopted at an older age, many from other countries, where they have very vivid memories of traumatic conditions (war orphans, victims of civil wars/ political unrest, famine, to name a few). These children are certainly more apt to have emotional crises than children who didn't experience certain atrocities firsthand. Definitely a challenge. And the thing is that there aren't really enough prospective adoptive families who are willing to take on a challenge like that. Most want babies, and there are so many older children who are passed over. It's sad. I think that adopting means, in many ways, stepping up to the plate like you say. "Imperfect" children need love, too. Possibly more.

[pisces2473]

Originally posted by cheshrcarol
I would think finding out that your parents aren't actually related to you would be pretty traumatic and maybe cause you to have problems.
Wait, so are you saying kids shouldn't know if they were adopted?

If GG's mom's a child psych, then probably MOST of the kids she deals w/ have issues, adopted or not. I don't think you can say "Adopted = PROBLEMS."

[cheshrcarol]

Originally posted by pisces2473

Wait, so are you saying kids shouldn't know if they were adopted?
No, I'm saying the opposite - kids should be told from the beginning, not led to believe they're genetically related.

[wordsmith]

I think carol was talking about finding out later in life...the trauma of not having been told early on.

[pisces2473]

Ahhh gotcha now! That's what I thought. Thanks Jessie/Carol. I agree--the kids should know early on. It's not fair to be led to believe something different...b/c what if someone "slipped?" Imagine the damage if an innocent let it out that the child had not been born to the parents he/she was living with? :eek:

[wordsmith]

Yeah, not being up front about stuff is just inviting dysfunction, in my mind.


Kind of a tangent, but does anybody know of any situations where somebody is adopted by a relative? That can get kinda weird.

A cousin of mine and his wife adopted the infant of the wife's sister, a young teen mom, at birth. I would have thought that would be a recipe for disaster...what if the birth mom can't really let go, seeing her sister and brother in law raising the baby? What if it causes problems later in life? But so far, so good. I'm not close to them, so I don't know how all the details were handled, such as, does the child know her mom and dad are technically her aunt and uncle?

In another scenario, a kid my brothers used to hang out with found out as a teen (when his "dad" died) that the people he'd been calling mom and dad were actually his grandparents. They had had a son who was killed in a car accident as a teen. But before he died, he'd gotten his high school girlfriend pregnant. After the accident, when the baby was born, the girlfriend basically gave the baby to her dead boyfriend's parents, saying that she couldn't bear to raise him. So they raised him, but never let on that they were his grandparents. He thought that the boy who died was his older brother, but really it was his dad. Crazy.

[gluegun]

In another scenario, a kid my brothers used to hang out with found out as a teen (when his "dad" died) that the people he'd been calling mom and dad were actually his grandparents. They had had a son who was killed in a car accident as a teen. But before he died, he'd gotten his high school girlfriend pregnant. After the accident, when the baby was born, the girlfriend basically gave the baby to her dead boyfriend's parents, saying that she couldn't bear to raise him. So they raised him, but never let on that they were his grandparents. He thought that the boy who died was his older brother, but really it was his dad. Crazy.

That is so effed up. When were they planning on telling him the truth?! I just can't imagine keeping something like that from my kid.

[wordsmith]

I know...pretty messed up, huh? I don't think they'd have told him, ever, except that it came out in some way during funeral proceedings when his dad/grandpa died.

It's all very VC Andrews novel, in my mind.

[LyraDora]

i have always had the opinion that if people do not want kids, then they shouldn't have them, plain & simple. this planet is already overpopulated. chances are if a child is not wanted by the parents then that child will not receive the love & care that s/he needs to grow into an adjusted person.

personally, i can't wait to have childre. i have always loved kids & have spent the last few years as a nanny. i know that i'll make a great mother, i'm more worried about finding that potential someone that to raise the children with. at this rate, there is never gonna be one.

i would like to have children of my own & maybe adopt. my parents adopted my sister so i've grown up thinking that truly compassionate & selfless people adopt, or at least the ones who are able to have their own children. my sister grew up knowing she was adopted. unfortunately, she has hit many bumps on the road. she has inherited some mental & physical health problems. my mom & her never got along much among a myriad of other things. i know it is difficult for her to not know about her medical history & the fact that my brother & i look alike & we look like our parents. but her life is probably better than if she had not been adopted by my parents. she has had lots of opportunities that she would not have had.

about pregnancy & birth, i am so excited for this. i realize i am one of the few. as i have mentioned before, i want to be a midwife so pregnancy & natural childbirth at home really interest me. i have never been pregnant so i am really worried that i won't be able to have children & i really wan to experience that part.

[Deadend]

Originally posted by LyraDora
i have always had the opinion that if people do not want kids, then they shouldn't have them, plain & simple. this planet is already overpopulated.

That couldn't be more true. I will recomend a book like "From Naked Ape to Superspecies" by David Suzuki to really get the gravity of the problem. I found it most interesting that while most babies are born in the third world, having a baby in the first world is like having 1000 babies in the third world because they will use up that much more resources. The so called "ecological footprint".


chances are if a child is not wanted by the parents then that child will not receive the love & care that s/he needs to grow into an adjusted person.

Is that so true? I've met alot of people born surprisingly close to their parents marriage date (myself included), that don't seem "unwanted"[/quote]


about pregnancy & birth, i am so excited for this. i realize i am one of the few. as i have mentioned before, i want to be a midwife so pregnancy & natural childbirth at home really interest me. i have never been pregnant so i am really worried that i won't be able to have children & i really want to experience that part.

Ya I wonder what it feels like too....... OH NO I LET IT OUT!

[dazed]

i know having a kid may for selfish reasons. i've thought about this issue a lot, thinking "do i say that i want kids just because that's the "normal" thing to do???" i'm still pretty young (23) to even think about this. i don't even have a SO.

but right now i would say that i would want kids. because i have that caring nature (to do anything for them) and i would love to be a mom. to me, i think that's the most amazing thing a woman could be in this world.

[guava]

My 2 yr. old daughter was an "accident". I was 24 and had just gotten hired for my first job out of school when I found out. To say the least I was freaking. However, I have to agree with the other mom on here (tina?) that it is the most rewarding wonderful experience ever, and I wouldn't change it for the world. My husband is a wonderful father (she is definitely daddy's girl). As far as working, I think that each family just needs to work out what is best for them. This stay at home versus working mom debate thing has gone on for years, and I personally am tired of the name-calling and mudslinging. Just because family x's mom stays at home doesn't mean that family y's vice president mom is bad or vice versa. You do what's best for your family and your personal values. I work full-time and so does my husband, and I am not going to apologize to anyone for doing it. I worked my ass off for over five years to get my degree, and I don't think it's unreasonable to want to use it. With regards to childcare, there are a lot of options: group daycare, home daycare, nannies, etc. I did a lot of research and looking around for a daycare that I felt comfortable with and went with it. My husband and I are both pleased with the situation. Our daycare teaches (they don't just do whatever all day) stuff that I wouldn't have thought of on my own and which I know benefits my daughter (all the staff are early childhood education certified). She gets great social opportunities and so far I've been more sick than she has. Personally, I think if my husband made more money I would quit to stay at home with her, but since he doesn't and we want to provide her with more than a mud hut to live in this is the way it'll be for a while. My husband and his seven siblings were brought up in a home with two working parents and they are all very well-adjusted intelligent successful people.

Boy, I'm rambling. I guess the gist of it is, in my opinion, if you don't want to have kids then DON'T. You may change your mind in a few years anyway. Don't let other people pressure you into such a huge commitment. On the other hand, I hope others won't get caught up in the stay at home v. working mom drama either. Just like religion, marriage, politics, etc. this is a personal decision. Everyone is different. To compliment tina again, it's the quality time you spend not the quantity. If you're home all day, but just put the kid in front of the tv then I don't think that's the same as getting to be with friends and teachers that provide quality learning and social experiences.

My two cents. I apologize for the book.

[joneshen]

I guess the gist of it is, in my opinion, if you don't want to have kids then DON'T.

What if you don't feel strongly one way or another?

I'd have no problem if the actual pregnancy and childbirth weren't so physically bothersome.

[tina1979]

Originally posted by joneshen

I'd have no problem if the actual pregnancy and childbirth weren't so physically bothersome.

I loved being pregnant. Yes at times it was uncomfortable, but it was never bothersome. And as far as childbirth goes you have a dozen options there for your "comfort".

[chrisp]

I totally feel afraid and I really dont feel I am qualified for the job. I think I would be a bad parent....not that I wouldnt take care of my kids but I wouldnt be good enough doing it. Kids scare me in general. I would be too overprotective and there is just so many worries.

[tina1979]

I think you'd probably be surprised. I always knew I wanted kids, but I really didn't want them while I was still pretty much a kid myself, scared me too death that i was too young, or would that i would become resentful, but I think I turned out to be a pretty good mom.

[joneshen]

but I really didn't want them while I was still pretty much a kid myself

tina, I still feel this way, and I'll be 27 in a few days! LOL

Someone (I think it was WeirdBrake) spoke about not wanting to bring kids into this society. Do you think that today's society will have such a corrosive effect on children?

[tina1979]

i think that the world was never perfect to begin with, and there will never be a perfect place to raise your kids. all you can do is make the best of what we have and try to make it better for the next generation. Just instill in your kids the correct values and morals, teach them right from wrong and hope for the best. Thats all you can do.

[Deadend]

When it comes to "growning up" I just point to my parents and say:

See? it's just not in my genes

[RealDeal]

I am not ready now to have kids, but I know for a fact that I want to have kids. I cant imagine not having them. I want to have 3 or 4. I am one of 3 kids and I love having a big family. Family is so important to me and the bigger the better. I feel like I would be so lonely without them. I have little cousins and everyday I see them I cant wait til the day that I have them.

[LyraDora]

Originally posted by Deadend


Is that so true? I've met alot of people born surprisingly close to their parents marriage date (myself included), that don't seem "unwanted"

[/QUOTE]

deadend - i am referring to people who do not really want their children or are unable to take care of their children, but have them because they yet that's were supposed to do. people who should not have had them in the first place, not accidents. those are two very different scenarios. i agree that accidents can be well adjusted. at least i am.

[Phoenix]

Tina - loved your posts. :) It's good to see a mom weighing in on the matter (well, our two moms, actually!)

Afraid to have kids? Not sure I'd put it that way. I think what I'd be afraid of is not having enough time. Or wondering WHEN I'd have the time. I want a career. It doesn't mean I don't want kids, but I also don't want to have to be the one to sacrifice. I sometimes wonder if I ever will find time/make time to have kids or if I'll just eventually end up letting the opportunity pass me by, by choice.

Then again, I'd have to find someone I'd want to have kids with, as well. :) I'm not sold on the idea of being a single parent (for myself, not saying anything against other people who are b/c I admire the people who can do it). I don't know that I'd want to try to raise a child on my own by choice.

I don't know...I have a lot of mixed thoughts floating around in my head about the subject. I think if I found the right person it probably wouldn't be so much of a question. I would probably do it when we were somewhat stable/ready.

[tartytwenty]

Originally posted by wordsmith
Most want babies, and there are so many older children who are passed over. It's sad. I think that adopting means, in many ways, stepping up to the plate like you say. "Imperfect" children need love, too. Possibly more.

I think if I were to choose adoption, ever in my life...which I'm not saying I would...

I would want a toddler opposed to a baby. That's when I start loving kids, the crazy 2-4 year old range :)