anyone go to church out there?

[skywalker]

Ok, I wasn't sure where to place this to make sure it is seen, but I've put it here in life and hopefully it will be viewed!

Now - I've been to a number of churches in my area and I never never see 20 somethings there - you'd figure this might be a good place to meet some people with similar values, etc...usually if there are they are married and might even have kids already...
So do people in their 20's just not go to church? Or are we all going at different times and missing each other? What's up? Let me know your thoughts.

[Cinnamon^Girl]

I think most churches have forgotten about the twentysomething age group and that is why you don't see us in church. Most of the churches I have been to have programming for college age, for young marrieds, and for singles (30+ something singles) but there is a void for single post-college twentysomethings. There are churches with these contemporary worship services where you are more likely to find twentysomethings, but for me these services are all fluff and no substance, so I'm still looking. Maybe we need to tell churches what we want...hmmm, what is it that "we" want??

[mundyman]

try going to a church with an evening service. not many twentysomethings go to our church's morning service, but plenty go to the evening.
its usually more relaxed also...

[Beckyann]

Hi. I go to church regularly, but there aren't a lot of 20-somethings where I go. It's a wonderful church, but that's been my greatest frustration-nobody my own age to hang out with. I agree with whoever said that the contemporary churches where you do find a lot of 20s folks are often full of fluff and lacking substance. That's why I've stuck with this church. I believe that's where God wants me, and I learn so much when I go, so I haven't given up on it, but it can get pretty depressing sometimes. It's good to hear that there are a few other 20 somethings trying to keep up with church. It's pretty lonely from my perspective.

[supreme]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only twentysomething that has a hard time finding a church that will keep me interested. Most chrches I have an aged population and are not geared toward our age group. I have a hard time meeting people my age with simialr values and morals outside of a church, especailly singles. I like the contempory style of church. I guess I'm less tradional that way /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[gabi]

hello, i go to church. it's true. most churches forget about us..but i went to one that was catered more towards us, but was disappointed.

the church i go to has very few of us..but i like it a ton!..

[jeninmass]

This is something I've thought about, too. I "shopped around" for churches when I relocated, and I found one I really love, but there is a serious age gap. The organist and I are the ONLY people between 14 and 34!!!

I'm not willing to give up this church because I love the atmosphere, pastor, and choir, but I'm really wondering where to meet other 20somethings with similar ideas about values, family, etc.

[Jillian]

If there is anyone out there who lives near Upland, Ca pay attention. If you are searching for a group of 24-35 year olds... then come visit us at Life Bible Fellowship! We are just starting up a group for single 20 somethings. If you would like more info, email me
BeenGivenNewLife@aol.com

[Anonymous]

I think it is important to belong to a Christian community. I have been in one for 6 years now and I am still excited about all our activities - conferences, retreats, seminars, parties, clubbing, holidays, sports days!

I have given up on finding an interesting church here in the UK - it is unusual to find people our age...

I still go to church but in Singles for Christ, we have great worship songs (we even have praisefests) and have fun at the same time!

I have friends all over the world - there's a community in over 80 countries. This year, I have served in Brussels, Wales and Geneva already. It is all very exciting doing the work of God and seeing families reconciling and members of the community getting married and moving on to Couples for Christ!

If any of you would like to find out more or if there is a chapter near you, then let me know: frappante@aol.com

God bless!

[Anonymous]

Hi -
I've been going to church off and on. My favorite in the area has been one that's on a college campus. I go in the evening, and there are globules of younger people there. During the school year I feel older, not younger, and even less connected. They're there in groups, and I'm reminiscing about my Freshman year 9 years ago (though I wasn't at church then) and going wow, I'm out of the loop. I have to admit that part of my return has to do with hoping it'll make my life better, somehow. But I am dealing with a lot of post-rebellion baggage about the harmful effects of organized religion on a person's mind, spirit, and shot at creating a successful life and future. I want to get confirmed this winter, but am not totally sure. My faith and hope seem to be the weakest they've ever been.

[angeltread]

for those of you out there who feel jaded or like God has abandoned you, this is for you.

for the jaded: there is a difference between "religion" and faith. religion is rules and regulations. faith is believing in God for salvation. God doesn't care who you are or what you've done. He wants you - period. there is a freedom in faith that religion can never provide. religion binds you up in your sin, faith sets you free from it. also, there is a difference between going to church to feel like a good person or meet people and going to church for fellowship with God and other Christians. don't go to church if you're just trying to fit in with society... that is not the point. church is for the true believers who feel drawn there to get their weekly fill of God's Word and meet with other believers.

now for the abandoned: God doesn't abandon His followers, we sometimes just forget that He's there... especially when we're depressed. just b/c you don't feel Him, it doesn't mean He's not there. its not about feeling, its about faith. i know that there are people out there who are genuinely, clinically depressed and who need help... they should seek it. for the rest of us, happiness is a choice. if life is going badly, then count your losses, grieve for them and find a way to move on.

i'm not trying to lecture anyone, i'm just trying to share what i've learned. my sister just had a miscarriage. it was a painful experience for her both physically and emotionally. but she is getting over it and being joyful that her baby is in heaven. some of her friends don't understand why she is not wallowing in depression. it is b/c she is trusting in God's Sovreign, yet sometimes incomprehensible, Will.

[angeltread]

i've gone through the same thing with my church. i absolutely love it but everyone is either married w/ children or still in college. it makes me wonder why i'm the only one who seemed to miss out on the next step of life. BUT at the same time, you never know what is going to happen. it sucks not having a lot of friends like i used to in college, but there are other things that maybe God wants me to focus on for now. i'm going to keep going to church where i truly feel like i'm learning and growing a lot and see what God brings to me along the way. i hope this is even a tiny encouragement if anything...

[lonelypghgrrl]

I hate to seem crass, but I can tell you why 20-somethings don't go to church. They're jaded. I know so many people jaded against religion. Look what religion has done to our society. Everyone remember 9-11? All over religion. Now, granted, that's extremists. But what about holy wars? Bloodshed in the middle east, the holy land, all over religion.

Could also be because we work our butts off all week and are too exhaused to go to church. Or for the basic reason, that there's no point to it. We are depressed individuals. We feel that god has abandoned us. How could he let this happen? We try so hard and do our best and for what? Nothing. At least for me and people I know, religion doesn't provide comfort. Especially the catholic religion. Everything you do is a sin. Everything is wrong. Men make up these silly rules and expect us to follow them or go to Hell. Can hell be worse than how life is now?

My experience with church has always been a bad one. I went to catholic school. Priests joking about what the kids said in confession, lesbian nuns. Sick. Old biddies gossiping. Wear your sunday best...oh yes...look rich in church because that's really what god wants.
Ok..im done.

[malaynab]

I partly agree with the last post.

Religious politics aside, I can tell you that I don't go to church regularly because the timing is bad for me. First, I don't believe that I have to go to church to have a relationship with God; however, I would like to learn with people who share my beliefs (or most of them) and share our experiences etc. My main reason for not going is because worship is scheduled for the middle of the day. I have two jobs and my fiance works. WIth our schedules, we hardly see each other. Sunday is the one day that neither of us work. I've found only one church in my area (of a denomination similar to my beliefs) that holds early services. In my area, however, means a 30 minute drive. By the time I go to "early" service, I'm late getting home. I would like to go to an early service, have "fellowship" or bible study, and be home in time to enjoy some "free" time with my fiance. I cannot attend weekday services because of having 2 jobs.

I do realize most people don't want to get up for early services, and that churches don't offer early services for that reason. This is just my reason for only attending occasionally.

Malayna

[cmsmith26]

I understand where everyone is coming from. I am 23 (and I am saved, sanctified, and filled with the Spirit.) Very few 20-s'things in my church, as well.

I was born and raised Catholic but am Pentecostal.

I'm paying off over $18,000 in student loans, my car, insurance, medical bills and credit card debt.

Add a diagnosis of clinical depression.
BUT, 2 years ago, I found Jesus. My life is so different now. Yes the bills are still there & I still battle the depression, but my priorities are straight, now. I no longer allow these things to overwhelm me.
Just give Jesus a try. I GUARANTEE you it will help you through this tough time.

[Antonina]

I'm pretty confused about where I stand.

Here's a bit of background: I was baptised catholic when I was in primary school, and had really good faith in god. I believed everything and loved the fact that I was a "good" catholic.

Then a couple of years ago, while at university, I got too busy- some of my work required that I work many weekends- so I stopped going to mass when I couldn't. Then I stopped going altogether.

Since then, I have grappled with staying 100% with the church's teachings- the biggest being fornication. It was only recently that I finally let go. But the guilt is overwhelming.

Is there anyone else out there with this problem? Can you tell me how you have dealt with it and what you did to ease your conscience?:(

[angeltread]

one of the amazing things about God is that He knows our hearts better than anyone. He knows our triumphs and regrets and best of all, He WANTS to forgive. that is precisely why He sent His Son to die. i was raised Catholic also, and i never knew that faith in Christ alone would lead to ultimate forgiveness until just a few years ago when a friend of mine told me about the Grace of God. ultimate means FINAL; once you're forgiven, God doesn't remember your sins. Isaiah 43:25 states: "I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more."

so many people who attend church are still bound to the law - rules and regulations. on one hand, the law is there for a reason: to protect us. God knows what is best. but also God made the law so that we could realize how much we need Him and Christ to save us. no one can perfectly uphold the law, except Christ who made the ultimate sacrifice for anyone who would simply believe in Him. this, obviously, does not mean that we should stop trying to uphold the law, but it means that we are free from the guilt of sin when we fail. your guilt is a call from the Holy Spirit to rest in Him. Romans 8:1 states: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." the Grace and Forgiveness of God is offered to ANYONE who would receive it... regardless of what you have done.

i would suggest studying the book of Romans. and don't stop after the first three chapters. those chapters are meant to focus on man's responsiblity: to obey God. the following chapters focus on God's responsiblity: to forgive those who truly believe in Him. it is a paradox in a way, but if you study it carefully, i think you will find a lot of freedom in it.

if you have any more questions, please reply to this post and i will be happy to share more. i hope this helped.

[MissKitty]

I am what my Mother affectionately refers to as a "Recovering Catholic". I was raised Roman Catholic, went to a Catholic grade school, and have a strict Roman Catholic family, but it didn't work for me. I do not go to church, I have no affiliation with any church or organized religion and I do not have the faith required to make the religion useful, but I'm not bitter or jaded. Religion is a very personal thing, and if it works for you, that's great. It dosen't work for me.

I consider myself to be a spiritual person, although my beliefs are more Pagan than anything. A person can be spiritual without being religious. Like a lot of other twenty-somethings, In a quest to discover more about myself, I had studied the religions of the world and I have applied the elements that work to make me be a better person. I believe in Karma, reincarnation, and I believe in the energies of the earth. I surround myself with positive people, I believe that what you give out is what you get in return, I constantly strive to be a good person. I believe that there is a higher power who does not have a name, and I believe that there is a female power as well as a masculine power, and I believe in an afterlife. I believe that we all have spirit guides or guardian angels, and if you meditate well you will learn to identify them and can call on them in moments of need. I meditate and send my prayers to the goddess. Which oddly enough, is very similar to what my Grandmothers did as they prayed before a statue of the Virgin Mother and asked their angels to watch over them.

~MissKitty

[cpate]

Miss Kitty, I'm curious.

How do you think the earth/living matter came to be? Where does that fit into your beliefs?

I personally have a hard time believing in most of what you described, because there is no factual basis for reincarnation, or most anything else you spoke of. Do you REALLY believe that stuff, or is it just something that makes you feel better?

I'm not trying to be rude- I really would like to know what you think on this.

[lonelypghgrrl]

You should not critisize miss kitty for her beliefs! Pushing ur religion on someone else is way wrong. What factual basis do YOU have for your religion being better than what miss kitty believes in?!?! YOU don't have to have faith in what miss kitty has faith in...and vice versa.

Did you witness the crucifixion, the resurrection, the great flood, the exodus from egypt?? I didn't think so. Well then, how do you know that's even true??? No factual basis.

The earth, planets, etc were 'born' from what one believes. Creationism? Evolution? It's your choice to make...but not yours to critisize others. How 'christian' is that???

Hence why I am against any organized religion...too much back biting and judging others. To be truly satisfied with ourselves, we must accept others as they are...whether u agree with their ideals or not.

Religion caused 9-11. Think about it.

Don't start hatred by pushing ur beliefs on someone else. But I don't want to be rude........................

[cmsmith26]

Antonina,

Don't let guilt & shame beat you down. Satan, who rules this earth, wants you to feel bad about what you've done in the past. BUT...if you take all that you've done to Jesus, He will forgive you & take away that guilt & shame. There is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. NONE at all. He loves us no matter what. That's why He died on the cross for us. Please let me know if you want to talk further about this. I know exactly what you're talking about & feeling. If you want to, we can talk via email.

[cmsmith26]

Lonleypghgrrl,

Just wanted to point out that evil & hatred caused 9-11. And I don't think cpate is trying to push his/her faith on anyone.

I think he/she is really trying to understand what/why miss kitty believes what she believes.

And another thing...there is factual/historical proof about many events in the Bible.

And you're absolutely right. We are to accept one another. We are to love our neighbors as ourselves. It's not our job to pick one another apart, but we do have a responsibility to encourage & uplift one another.

[cpate]

lonely girl,

I'm not claiming to be religious in ANY way, so I'm certainly not pushing my beliefs on anyone. Don't jump to conclusions, I just asked her a couple of questions because I'm interested.

[cmsmith26]

I hear ya, CPATE.

[lonelypghgrrl]

Truth is....MEN wrote the bibe. In a time where wine and opium were the norms of society. Also...4 different men wrote Genesis. Hmmm...prophets? Story tellers? Creative drunks? No one will ever know the truth. The truth is what's in your heart. Not a book. Not a building.

I have faith...I can believe what I want. Not what MEN say. Not what MEN have written. Don't be sheep. Be yourself. Be kind to others...live your own life.

God doesn't make women wear skirts 24/7...men do.

Yes, evil & hatred caused 9-11. But this IS a HOLY WAR.

[cpate]

Lonely girl,

Do you beleive that America really gained independence from Britain? Or were we really fighting the Chinese? Did Napolean even exist? How about the Roman Empire?

But the truth to all those questions is really in your heart...

There is such thing as the truth, I just think you have seen The Matrix one too many times...

[lonelypghgrrl]

Nope...never seen it.

I'm a geologist, so I need physical proof of things.
You can tell me how mountains were built, but show me proof of how and I'll believe you.

My main problem with church is the ludacris rules they have. Confessing ur sins to a man! Obsurd! Marriage classes given by a priest! Outrageous! Only getting into heaven if you go to church and pay money every sunday! Pathetic.

Is there a religion out there that lets you be your own person??!?!!?

[cmsmith26]

I think it is important for us to not pick at one another. We are all on this site b/c we are going through this QLC. It does not help if we're fighting one another. We're s'posed to be here helping each other.

I don't know about the other Christians on these boards, but I know that the Bible was written by man, but inspired by GOD. The Bible was not written to cramp our lifestyles or to make us a bunch of gullible, mindless, spineless creatures.

All I know is that when I stopped trying to lead/run my own life without Jesus in the midst, my life changed DRASTICALLY.

If you're in the middle of QLC, don't you want your life to change. Aren't you tired of handling the uncertainty, the stress, etc. by yourself?

I'm not a Bible-thumper, whacking people over the head with my faith. I only posted my thoughts about faith and the Truth b/c it has helped me & this is what this site is about.

Please, please, please, if you have questions, just ask me. I won't be offended whatsoever.

[cmsmith26]

Lonelypghgrrl,

I know what you're talking about. Rules...I know about the churches where women must wear skirts & not cut their hair...Those are man-made rules.

I was Catholic for many, many years (all my life until 2 years ago). I did the Holy Communion, Confirmation, and the many years of CCD.

But for me...I needed more than the sacraments & stations of the cross. I needed more than Sunday morning mass. I needed more than Penance/Confession. I needed a personal relationship with Jesus.

This relationship doesn't concern rules/regulations/politics. Once you have this, you have it all. I wish I could talk to you & tell you how getting this relationship has helped me. My heart breaks for those who don't know His love. His love is nothing like any other. It is TRULY unconditional. No matter what you've done in the past, it doesn't matter. In my faith, you bring your sins to Jesus. HE forgives you. Not a man, not a woman. HIM.

I'm sorry that your experience with faith has been so condemning (with the rules & making you feel you're bad if you do/don't do this.)

Please...I'll be glad to talk w/you more via email if you'd like.

[lonelypghgrrl]

I totally agree 100% with what ur saying.

My mom doesn't seem to understand that.

Sure...I'd love to chat over email:

joshsgrrl@hotmail.com

Mail me anytime!
:D

[Antonina]

Thank you for your reply. I would love to email you sometime if your kind offer still stands, as this is a matter very close to my heart and I am worried that someone I know might stumble on the site some time (paranoid!). My email is: vettsky@hotmail.com

What is yours?

[cmsmith26]

My email is cmsmith26@hotmail.com


I'd be glad to chat with ya!!

[malaynab]

Miss Kitty,

I was so suprised to read your post. It almost sounded like I wrote it. I too believe that I am spiritual without being religious. Spiritual guides, higher power, getting back what you give. . . these are all things that I believe as well. I haven't found one particular religion that suits my beliefs, but don't think it's necessary to find one either. I do wish there was some way to find more people who feel as I do. I think we could benefit by talking about our beliefs in a setting where all ideas are taken in for what they are . . . ideas.


Malayna

[superkiddo7]

I left Christianity when I was 14, after I made $600.00 (US) for confrimation, only to find out how corrupt the church was.

I became Quaker, but unlike a lot of converts I'm not hardcore or orthodox. I'm myself and thats good enough for god.

I just got sick of ministers telling me what to do based on their interpretations of the bible.

What it came down to was that religion is a subjective relationship between god and creation. Anything that comes between that is false to me.

I love being with fellow Quakers, I love learning more about my culture (quaker culture). My one regret about college is not going to a Quaker college.

This summer I hope to work at the Friends General Conference gathering in PA. Should be a blast. And the bonus is that because it's the only thing we have that even comes close to a religious holiday I get off from work every year to go!

[1/2-step behind]

there were alot of things here I wanted to comment on, but i dont want to add to the heat i felt while reading everyones posts.

When i was a kid my mother (single) was raising my 2 brothers and I best she could and wanted religion to be a part of that. We tried lots of different churches. Mostly baptist,presbyterian or something close to that. The big thing i noticed was that, you could go to 2 baptist/presbyterian/non-denominaional (etc) churches and they would be completely different. Each church was a direct reflection of the minister/preacher. It was kind of confusing, now you had to choose more than just a religion, and then a denomination, and theeen, you had to find a particular church that you could agree with too.

Another thing that killed me (i was young) was the way ppl seemed to dodge simple questions. ie: where did dinosaurs come from? why werent they in the bible? why are there fossils older than the book, or the time of creation? The answer I always got was: 'not all things are for us to know', or 'have faith'. That was never enough to satisfy me, and if you were persistant they ppl would get annoyed and ask why you questioned the bible, or even worse, the Lord. :confused:

I had a 12 year lapse in religion and was never worried about going back to church. I have christian beleifs, but grew tired of trying to find a church taht could enhance my relationship with the Lord. I had very liberal beleifs at the time too, i figured as along as i was kind, helpful and didnt hurt anyone else i could be doing no wrong. I figured sex and the occasional drug were fine.

Over the past few years I've made a few friends who happened to be LDS. I never thought anything of it other than they were my 'straightedge/sissy' friends. As time went by, through trials and tribulations, i found that they were my true friends, the ones that really loved me. They, even though somewhat boring, were the most respectable, honest and sincere ppl i knew.

A year ago now, I was in full swing, partying smoking and sleeping around, :twisted: I was spending so much time having fun that by march i had already used all my sick days and vacation time.

Last March missionaries from the Church came by. Around the same time, one of my really close LDS friends, and a girl i had just gotten out of a relationship with suggested i look into the church. They challenged me saying i had always boasted being open minded. and I am, im always willing to sit down with anyone, anyone, and listen to their beliefs.

I sat with the missionaries, and they told me what they beleived, alot of it struck my beliefs very closely, and some of it was very new to me. But they made me a promise, a pretty bold promise for 2 young guys who had just met me and didnt know that the night before i had been beligerent, smoking and working on getting laid. They promised me that if i would sit down and pray that night, if i was sincere in heart and desired to know the truth, that I would it would be given to me. I kind of brushed it off, i mean, i hadnt prayed for anything, cept maybe a green light, in years, and i had never, never gotten and answer to a prayer. I honestly beleived that prayers werent meant to be directly answered. Like prayers went into an anonymous suggestion box.

That night, when i was logging off of my computer, i remembered what they had said, and i felt a little embarassed, but , i got down on my knees, alone in my room, and started to pray as best as i knew how. I prayed, asking to know the truth, i asked to find a true church and i asked to know if their church was true. i cant tell you guys, i still get tingly thinking about it, but as soon as the thought went through my mind, i just felt a calm come over me, and i knew, without a doubt, what i had found was real. i sat there for a long time thinking. i knew it was time, and that i would have to change my entire life, starting the very next morning.

Since then I've learned many things, i spent 4 weeks going through the discussions, and learning more about my new found religion, but it was already too late to change my mind. I knew it was real, i knew it like i would know my own mother if she stood before me. its the first time i ever felt that way. a few weeks later i gave up smoking after 7 years, and drinking, sex too :madder: ( i know i did the right thing) and was baptised.

everything just feels so good about what im doing now, lin october i had the privelidge to baptism my older brother, I'll never forget that. I've been to five or six different LDS churches, and the message and the ppl are the same. everyone volunteers , even the bishops, so i feel comfortable there, knowing the ppl teaching are normal ppl.

im going off on a tangent here, so ill stop myself. i just wanted to share my own experience, its changed everything in my life, and while i may be in my qlc, im much more confident. i dont worry about my future anymore, whatever i may end up doing, i know ill be taken care of, heck, if i get hit by a bus tomorrow ill miss everyone, but ill be ok. :D morbid yes, but comforting.

im not a wealth of information, but anyone who has questions about the rumors or 'weird practices' we have feel free to ask me. and no.... lol :lol: ... we dont get multiple wives, so dont go getting your hopes up guys.

1/2-step behind

spcl_ed@hotmail.com

[1/2-step behind]

as if i havent already yapped more than my share.

one thing im really happy about is that our church tries to make it fun for us. The church is split up into groups and different churches, but any one is free to go to the church they choose. When i was a new member, i was hungry to learn more about the religion so i went to a family ward. the family wards are for married couples and families of any age, and their kids. no distractions though so i like it. Now that ive been around for a year I go to a single adults ward. the SA ward is specifically for SINGLE adults, ages 24 to 34. it gives me that extra incentive to get dressed for church on sundays. another nice thing is the SA ward doesnt start untill 12:30, suits me. :D

They do all kinds of fun stuff though, i kind of wish id started there earlier. 3 or 4 nights a week they have activities. no one goes to all of em , but its nice to have the option. they do bonfires, potlucks bbq's movie nights dances, dinners, all kinds off goody goody junk like that, haha. but its fun, and its ppl my age, and theyre all single so no time wasted trying to find out. if anyone is interested, but doesnt want to hear the preaching, go to one of the activities first, theyre all about a bunch of ppl with the same morals, the same age getting together for fun.

if your curious check out www.lds.org or email me. i dont mind taking a few minutes to find a ward in your area. (anything to distract me from work)

1/2-step behind

[Benwa]

Such interesting opinions. May I suggest that you stop personifying god. In fact give it no form whatsoever. Because once it has form it becomes an external source of perceived "happiness". And once this is done it has the same effect as alcohol, drugs, sex or food. Nothing external gives happiness, just fleeting pleasure or pain. Name one external form of anything that is eternal?

Joy is housed internally. Our natural state is Joy, we just have too many layers of stratified crap piled on top. And when I say internal I don't mean the mind. In fact the mind is a major foe to joy since it houses the ego. The ego is simply the sense of self. The egoic mind constantly searches for external sources or experiences in order to keep it alive. It identifies itself with the external things which are temporary and when those temporary things dissappear there is a sense of loss. A destruction of self, a death. The egoic mind is responsible for all of our suffering and fear.

The actions of the 9-11 hijackers had nothing to do with god, religion or antiamericanism. It was there ego's. Some where along the line the ego felt threatened and it took over the persons to do whatever it had to to survive.

The key to the internal house of Joy is The Now. The ego mind holds on to the past and dwells or looks to the future for something better. It hates The Now. Past and future are illusions created by the mind, they don't exist. Anything that ever happens, happens Now. After it happens the mind attatches a label to it, categorizes it and makes it part of your ego self. If you stay completely present in the Now, the mind will pause and you can glimpse your true self.

Try this. Sit. Close your eyes and become aware of your body. Feel your butt in the chair, the socks on your feet, each hair on your head. Dissolve all concern for future and dissasociate from past. Slow the breath, the thoughts will slow. Be aware of the sounds in the room, the feeling in your body. Now. Ask yourself what problems you have in this particular moment. Chances are... none. And that is the power of the present. You may even be getting a sense of joy rising. There it is. Your God, Allah, Jesus, Buddha, The Force, Energy, Source.

For all the Jesus folks, perhaps when Jesus said salvation is now, he meant it literally. Salvation is Now.

[Benwa]

Brake, I'm not a proponent of religion either. Anything that excludes certain people doesn't jive with me.

Maybe I didn't describe the ego correctly. Religion, politics and blind authority are all products of strong ego. The ego needs to identify itself with something external in order to exist. It doesn't matter if it is attatched to something seen as positive or negative. It must attatch to something in order to be. Terrorists become attatched to the organization through their ego to gain a sense of importance or perhaps future happiness from doing "gods will". These things are direct manifestations of ego.

Ego thrives on thoughts, conceptions, opinions and ideals. The mind creates these things to feed it. The ego mind fears not having these ideas. I foolishly thinks that if there is no identity then the person ceases to exist. Only when you become fully aware is the tenacious hold broken. Also, egoic mind is an unconscious entity. Many times it goes and goes with out us truly realizing. As soon as you become aware of it and observe it, you see it for what it is.

Most people walk through life and never become conscious. Some only become conscious for a brief moment (when a loved one dies, when they are sick, or witnessing childbirth.). It is about surrendering to what is. Not surrendering to a guru or some external form. This isn't to encourage passivity, but to fully realize the temporary nature of everything.

I don't know if this makes sense. If just become conscious myself and have trouble describing it to people.

[M4A1]

I agree with Ben on this. It's about ego.

I might have mentioned that one of my very good friend is Palestinian. He's born in this country, right here in Chicago, grew up in a wealthy neighborhood of mostly Catholics in the suburbs. So you would think that his ideologies would be completely inline with people whom he grew up with, but it is not. Although his ideas aren't radically different because he did grow up in harmony with people of other faiths, so he understands and respects the norm that we have here. He has no problem with woman who are unveiled. He has no problem goto a bar with us and be the designated driver everytime. He is Muslim. He fasts during Ramadan and doesn't eat pork-- because why? It is his identity. It is his ego-- an affiliation that he's compelled to be attached to, because that's how his parents were and everyone else in his family.

When one belongs to a group, he benefits from the recognition coming from members of that group. They bound together, regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes that bound is so strong to a point that you are almost engulfed by it. This experience varies as each person is unique, some are easily swayed and some aren't. However, if one is completely swallowed up by it, he/she will have no problem taking up perspectives as his/her organization dictates.

My friend is a easy going person by nature. He is not zealous by any means, and always has this friendly smile. But when the goings get tough, he reaches back to where his ego belongs, and I can completely understand why he does that, or needs that, as everyone needs some comfort. But each time when he does, and then if he and I get into a discussion (arguement) and if what I said don't go well with his affiliation's general perspective. He gets all defensive, and often irrationality will sprung up. His ideas about about Iraq or Palestinian uprising, which usually apparent to us, gets so distorted when he's on the defensive. "Yea, it's bad, but...", "Well, they have nothing"...

It's about the ego-- or sense of belonging.

[TankgirlyC]

Those involved with the bombing arent relying on ego or religion...its a CULT!!

If you become brainwashed enough...like it was said...*go fly a plane into the building* *ok what flight*----this is an example of being in a cult. Had they asked WHY....Osama would tell them that Americans are crap...they would believe....because they are washed of conscious thought.....

This is what all cults are about...Waco, those people who killed themselves for the comet.....Charles Manson....those people involved did what they were told.....murder, because their leader told them. He had complete control over them and their thoughts and doings....CULT!

Ok---does this make more sense than Ego stuff or religion stuff?

[acousticgroupie]

it's very sad that there arent more christian friends for me out there. my church is lotsa kids and parents. it's depressing. it's like the tools aren't even out there for me....wish we had that cali singles church here....bla blah, NJ is here...

kristen:)

[squirmy]

Hey acousticgroupie,

How big is your church?

I used to go to one pretty similar to yours (lots of families and such), with not really anyone else there around my age. Nice place, wonderful people, but it got kind of depressing. So I had to do the church shopping song-and-dance and went somewhere bigger. I found a great group there.

Have you heard of Willowcreek? It's in Illinois, but there are lots of places like it springing up (www.willowcreek.org). It is humogeonously gargantuan, but there are plenty of people and other resources. I visited there a couple of times and I liked the cafe. The only thing that I've found is that it was up to me to make the effort. It's not so much like somewhere small, where other people are more inclined to strike up conversation.

Anyway, if you want to chat about it or whatever else, feel free to email me. :) nonotoriety@yahoo.com

[acousticgroupie]

check out my post in the main board. i'm working on an article for a mag and could use input.

www.crossdaily.com has a great chat, met some buddies online. wish we had something lik ethat illinois thing. oh well....

w/b

[geekstar]

I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and there is a really great church that has an actual service for 20 somethings on Saturday nights - Victory Christian Fellowship in Cranberry. It was started because Victory's pastor saw a need for 20-somethings in Pittsburgh to have a place to get connected. Everyone is really friendly - even if you come by yourself. The messages are given on topics we deal with - relevant to our age group. I'm in my late 20s and go but their are people at the service from age 18-low 30s.

Some of the messages lately have been on self-esteem/self-confidence, finding your mate, What should I do with my life, etc. They will be having a series on finding your career soon and relationships in general. Pastor John is awesome.

Anyways, it is a great place to meet people and make real friends. There are students, young career folk, urbanites from Oakland and people from rural areas. The service is continually growing - at least 125 people minimum a week. I'd have to say it is a real mix. The band their is amazing also - rock/electronic - not your typical church music - but it is such good worship.

so, check out http://www.shiftnow.com to see the service's website. Try it once - you'll get something out of it one way or another. www.shiftnow.com (http://www.shiftnow.com) Hope this gets to some Pittsburghers....

[dietzy]

Geekstar...

I too am from Pittsburgh...26/m/north hills...what about you?

I think there are a lot of great churches in the Pittsburgh area that are geared more toward younger crowds. I attended Northway Christian Community for awhile and they have a VERY strong group of 20 somethings and seems to be a lot of singles there too. They recently started a 20 somethings cafe which is pretty neat. I stopped going there because of the massive size of the church and I found it hard to meet people at the weekly service. I guess the small groups during the week were a better way to meet people, but my schedule doesn't really allow for that.

I now attend Allison Park Church which is part of the Assemblies of God. AWESOME church! Lively...good mix of attendees...and I think the BIGGEST thing that appeals to me about the church is that the pastor preaches from the Bible.

EVERYONE ELSE....

I think that is a problem that many churches face. They are too focused on trying to make a service hip or cool...too focused on doctrine and formalities and rituals (don't even get me started on Catholicism because I could go on for hours)...and have lost focus on what is important. The important things are finding new souls that can be saved so that when the fast approaching judgement day arrives, more of us will be going to heaven instead of hell...developing christians that desire to have a stronger walk with Christ through teaching that is directly from the Bible and supported by the Bible...and praising and worshiping God for how awesome He is!

Here is my tip for those of you seeking a church
1. talk to people...push your comfort zone to get to know some of the people at the church
2. Look at what the church stands for and believes in
3. Look to see if the church is on the grow and moving forward or stagnate and going nowhere
4. Nondenominational churches typically are less "religious" and bogged down with all of the formalities than denominational churches are
5. BIGGEST ONE...If you don't see the pastor/preacher/minister reading from the Bible and siting the Bible throughout the sermon...look elsewhere...and I would even be as bold as to say that a good church will have an opportunity at every service to except the Lord Jesus Christ into their lives.

LASTLY...I know this is long, but I am just now reading these posts and there is so much to comment on....I too used to use the excuse that I was too busy and/or too tired to go to church on Sunday. It is really just an excuse. We are never too tired to watch a favorite TV show or go shopping or do soooo many other things, then why are we too tired or too busy for church? I think it is because we have not put church as a priority in our lives. It is Biblical that God wants you to be a part of a church so that you can learn, grow, and associate. Put God first...that is the way it is supposed to be...put God first in ALL things and you will see a dramatic effect on your life. It is not easy...not convenient...but I believe it is essential!

God bless all of you...I hope this post helps...I will certainly say a special prayer tonight for those who are seeking answers and seeking to know God more.

[dietzy]

Just was thinking about this....and thinking about how interesting it is and yet ironic...people don't have time for church or God and it is not a priority until a crisis situation. Look at what happened after 9-11...churches were FLOODED with people! People were praying all over the nation to God...AMAZING!

[geekstar]

Hi Dietzy - we could be neighbors - I live in the north and am a 27/F. Probably have mutual friends somewhere (or from Northway)...

Responding to what you said...

It seems like everyone I know in our 20 something age bracket is looking for a purpose or reason for being. We feel lost in a world that is really uncertain. We need friends and family - but people aren't perfect and will fail us too at one time or another. A crisis or world event often times "wakes" up our spiritual side. These hard confusing situations and events make us aware of what is important in our lives - and where we need answers.

There has to be something that makes it all worth it. That is why many of us turn to God at one point or another. Is He there? Does He care? Is there something more? What is it?

I think these are important questions to ask.

Ask them and expect God to show up. He will.

I know that I need God in my life for His love and direction. I have to make time for Him. I have to go to church and be around people who encourage each other and have chosen to follow God's leading in their lives. I need to have a higher purpose than just earning a paycheck. I have found there is a purpose to it all. I don't know how people do it all on their own. I feel lonely at times and confused but I know I have a relationship with a God who cares and is looking out for me. Life isn't perfect but life has a purpose.



;)

[zoegirl]

I really know how most of you are feeling. I graduated college 6 months ago and still am having a hard time adjusting to the shift in life. I was part of a close knit campus fellowship and finally found a really awesome contemporary church that I loved. I was even leading a bible study for part of my Senior year. I then got a job with a church doing design and web work. Its a very large church and just seems to be missing that fire for God that my church at school had. Everything is so strict and serious. I haven't found a church family yet and I know I need the fellowship. I basically go to work and come home everynight. I used to be so involved. I live alone, and I know it sounds silly, but I feel guilty if I do too much in the evenings because I have a dog. I had her all through college and I don't want to be gone all day and all night. I went to a retreat awhile back and this college group in my town invited me to their meetings but they meet at 9:30 at night on Mondays. I used to pull all nighters and stay up late but now that I'm working I'm so ready to chill out by 9:30 at night on a Monday! I barely get by month to month and have felt very isolated and depressed. I wonder where my old self went. God has always provided for me. Its been a hard year but I know that life is hard, that we are tested in our faith. I don't think we'll ever be completely comfortable and always happy or satisfied, we are unsatisfied because we are to inherit the most incredible place of all, our home, heaven, and life here and now is a mediocre stand by...not that we can't make the best of it and have the good times too...we just have to have faith that through God we can be strong. There are lots of people our age going through the same stuff: Debt, bad relationships, no relationships, loneliness, anxiety, depression, not quite being where they want to be, striving for their dreams, messing up at work, losing people we love. Life is HARD! I think there is solace in knowing that other people are experiencing it all as well as ourselves.

[teadrinker]

I think it is great that everyone is at least talking about religion, and everyone seems pretty tolerant of the other beliefs. It is hard to be a single Christian in her twenties. Most social life in our country seems to revolve around alcohol, which I completely stay away from (partly because it tastses nasty...) I also agree with what some people said about man-made rules. I hate that! And we have the responsibility to not be "sheep." For Christians, we have to read the Bible and ask the tough questions. And, there have been times that I prayed to God about things that I couldn't deal with, and felt a supernatural calm come over me afterwards. It is an amazing feeling.

[acousticgroupie]

i love church and i go usually every other week - i just wish there were more people my age there...

[cazort]

The thing is...I think there are a lot of young people out there that try finding a church that has other young people. Maybe they'll try out one church here, then one church there, then wait a few months. Then try out another one.

Then they give up.

If you go regularly to a church, even a church that has NO young people, eventually, you'll find that one or two young people will show up. And...well, you might not get them to start coming to that church, but hey--you'll meet another young person who WANTS to come to church, and that's a very important thing.

I think that often, when people visit a church, they don't need to connect with everyone there to feel good about it. Often all it takes is one or two people to take the time to talk to them individually, and they feel an immense world of difference. (Think of how awful it feels when you go to a church and it seems unfriendly and no one talks to you--or worse, there is a sort of superficial friendliness but you can't break through it to actually talk about anything real).

And...you can easily do this for one person, and that makes a real difference!